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21 Jul, 2007

Epic sued by Silicon Knights

360 News | Failure to deliver Unreal Engine 3 code in sufficient time.
In what is likely to turn into a somewhat public legal battle, Gamasutra reports that Epic has been served with documents by Silicon Knights for breach of contract.

More specifically, Silicon Knights alleges that Epic, after accepting licensing fees from various parties for the Unreal Engine 3, deliberately launched their own titles using the provided monies while simultaneously undermining competing titles through delayed delivery of code and failure to provide previously agreed upon support.

The suit states that, "Rather than provide support to Silicon Knights and Epic’s other many licensees of the Engine, Epic intentionally and wrongfully has used the fees from those licenses to launch its own game to widespread commercial success while simultaneously sabotaging efforts by Silicon Knights and others to develop their own video games."

The damage caused by a lack of timely access to Unreal Engine 3 code has apparently now forced Silicon Knights to pursue the use of alternative game engines for Too Human. Specific legal breaches cited are many and include fraud, negligent misrepresentation, breach of warranty, unjust enrichment, and breach of contract, just to name a few.

In a statement made to Gamasutra, Denis Dyack, President and Founder of Silicon Knights, said, "Our strong preference is to focus on making games, not be in court. Unfortunately though, as explained in our lawsuit, we have had extensive problems with the Unreal Engine 3 that Epic has been unwilling or unable to rectify."

He continued, "For more than a year, we have been trying to reach an agreement with Epic to resolve these issues without resorting to litigation, but were unable to come to reasonable terms with Epic. Regrettably, we are now forced to go to court in order to achieve satisfaction. We remain hopeful, however, that we can reach a reasonable business resolution with Epic at some point."

Epic, while releasing details of the suit early to prevent speculation, has not commented since on the details or their position.

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20 Comments
4 years ago
Not cool Epic. Not cool!
4 years ago
Yep, read about this yesterday on GS and its absolutely disgraceful behaviour by Epic. I really had a lot of respect for them.. its hard to believe really. It'll be interesting as to how this one will play out.
4 years ago
This has the potential to really hurt Epic, not just financially but in reputation too. It's certainly darkened their image in my eyes.

I feel really bad for Silicon Knights. People aren't taking Too Human seriously thanks to it's lackluster showing at E3 and now, if these allegations are true, we're to believe that it was Epic's morally ambiguous conniving that is to blame! That's seriously f**ked up.

If other development studios add their voices to the chorus, Epic could be in some deep sh!t.

I should also mention that word on the street is that Gear's of War is the only title on the market at this time that uses the UE3 engine. Unreal Tournament 3 will be the next game released using the engine. Both Epic titles.

All other third parties developed games using UE3 have either been heavily delayed or canceled outright.

Also don't forget about Epic and Sony's recently announced agreement. Working together to optimize the engine for the PS3? Maybe there's more to it than that.

Makes you think...
4 years ago
Capoeira wrote
Also don't forget about Epic and Sony's recently announced agreement. Working together to optimize the engine for the PS3? Maybe there's more to it than that.

Makes you think...
The Unreal 3 engine comes with the PS3 Dev Kit. Which means (virtually) means that Epic gets money for every Dev Kit sold.
4 years ago
Here's a story I heard from the paperboy who had heard it from the shoe shine boy who heard it from a stockbroker with dirty shoes...

Epic was apparently in a tight position about 24 months ago after spending most of its available cash on buying the Reality Engine to merge into their own product whilst simultaneously funding Gears and UT3. They where heavily geared so to speak!

About 12 months ago the pressure was starting to show and rumors started circulating that EA's accountants where becoming frequent visitors to North Carolina. EA where probably hoping it was cheaper to buy the company than to buy licenses and in the process pickup UT itself! Epic started to tap dance for money but was fortunate to bring in some big license sales for the Unreal Engine to Sony and later to EA. Epic was very complimentary to Sony at this time and praised the PS3. This tune changed when the PS3 delays made Epic worry about sales of their bread and butter UT3 brand. Favor publicly shifted to Microsoft very quickly who was growing their platform and offering Epic I'm sure, some wonderful levels of support for the GOW product.

Epic has really been in survival mode for the past two years (if not more) so this news is not surprising. It's just a shame that it has effected a good developer like Silicon Knights. If they are successful in their claims maybe Microsoft can have whats left of Epic for a bargain price and UT3 can go exclusive to Xbox360 & PC!
4 years ago
Epic being bought out by Microsoft would spell doom for Sony, lets hope that this doesn't happen.
4 years ago
Thats pretty informative, Cookie. If anyone was to buy Epic out I'd rather it be Sony personally.

I hope this doesn't spell doom for Epic though, they make bloody excellent games.
4 years ago
Quote
I should also mention that word on the street is that Gear's of War is the only title on the market at this time that uses the UE3 engine. Unreal Tournament 3 will be the next game released using the engine. Both Epic titles.
Well RoboBitz on 360 and Pc but here is a quote from the developers on that one.

Quote
We're also getting a lot of press for being one of the first Unreal Engine 3 games out, and that's another significant tech risk that is paying off. Developing the game at the same time UE3 was being developed was non-trivial. The engine is great, but it wasn't fully functional when we started work on RoboBlitz a year ago. We were putting all of our eggs in Epic's basket by relying on them to come out with features we needed by the time we needed them. Sometimes we had to implement the features ourselves while we were waiting, but in the end, this too was worth the risk.

Working with unfinished cutting-edge technologies always leads to production delays, unforeseen design/art/code changes to accommodate a new build of the tech, and more production delays. Unless we were working on an established franchise, any publisher would have aborted RoboBlitz a long time ago.
http://www.gamedevelopment.com/php-b...hp?story=13810

You also have to realise that a lot of UE3 licenced games have all had significant delays and titles like Fatal Inertia have been pushed back to 2008 because the Ps3 version of the engine was so slow in terms of performance. Definetly not a good day to be Epic.
4 years ago
Jabjabs wrote
Quote
I should also mention that word on the street is that Gear's of War is the only title on the market at this time that uses the UE3 engine. Unreal Tournament 3 will be the next game released using the engine. Both Epic titles.
Well RoboBitz on 360 and Pc but here is a quote from the developers on that one.
And Rainbow Six Vegas and Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia.

Quite a few big titles coming in the next few years on UE3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Engine_3
4 years ago
I'm pretty sure R6:Vegas ran on a modified UE2.5

Let's say that either MS or Sony were able to pick up the pieces and buy Epic and UE3, I don't think it'll have too much of an effect on the other. A lot of studios still create their own these days.
4 years ago
crestfallen wrote
I'm pretty sure R6:Vegas ran on a modified UE2.5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_Rainbow_Six:_Vegas
Wiki wrote
Engine Unreal Engine 3.0
icon_wink.gif
4 years ago
^ I'm not too sure about that...

4 years ago
^ sorted!

Yea I read this last friday just before I was about to go home and thought about sticking it up on the general forum but I knew this article was coming so I just left it alone (plus I wanted to rush home as quick as I could).

All I want is for Too Human to become a reality. You know i've been looking foward to this game since the N64 (even though it began development on the Ps1)!!!! I LOVE Silicon Knight's games and personally I couldn't care less what happened to Epic because every single game they've made put together couldn't come close to just one chapter from Eternal Darkness.

The best games imo usually develop their own engines anyways....e.g. Half Life series, Halo series, God of War series, Resident Evil series, Mario series....the rest are just filler games for me....it's the completely original made from the ground up stuff that really has an impact on me.....usually.
4 years ago
I was pretty surprised by this news when I first heard it. I'd heard rumors that they were unhappy with the unreal Tech and that a move to a different engine was happening but I didn't think it'd end up in a lawsuit.

It's a pretty big move on Silicon Knight's part but the more I read/hear about it the more is seems they may have a pretty strong case. Unreal Engine 3 seem like a pretty powerful tool but as you guys have noted a lot of games for it are being delayed/canned. And a game like R6:Vegas which i thought was running on it wasn't. Seems a bit dodge to me.

I just hope now the Silicon Knight can overcome the trouble with Too Human and get it out the door next year. It seems like such a great concept and the cut scene they put on the marketplace during E3 just makes me want to play it more
4 years ago
ugh the boot wrote
The best games imo usually develop their own engines anyways....e.g. Half Life series
Half-Life 1 is based on the QuakeWorld engine. essentially a Quake 1.5 engine. (it used some of the tech from the Quake 2 engine, but was the Quake engine at it's roots.)

i agree with some of the sentiment though, i think a lot of times, games that use 3rd party engines don't stray too far from the initial engine that they seem too "same-y".

but then there are usually some awesome titles from companies that take the engine and seriously twist it to their own ends. Half-Life 1 is a prime example. compare it to SiN, which is a Quake 2 engined game released at the same time as HL, it just doesn't compare, and is mostly why HL became such a powerhouse game when SiN didn't.

Call of Duty 1 was built on the Quake 3 engine, same as Medal of Honor: Allied Assault, but these were several years apart, so it serves more as an indication on how new ideas can exploit an engine fully.

not to mention the RenderWare engine - you've probably got several games using this engine on your shelf.
4 years ago
This is a serious matter because something similar happened with Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines. This was the only title licensed to use the Source Engine and, like a double edged sword; it also caused the downfall of Troika Studios.

Valve held the game back from release so that Half Life 2 would gain maximum exposure and market returns.

I used to have full respect for Epic and wouldn't think they'd resort to such underhanded tactics. Ive been a fan of Silicon Knights since their creation of Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, and feel for them. Too Human has been on the cards for too long now, and seeing something like this must be heartbreaking for D.D and crew.
4 years ago
^ Are you sure about that HL2 example? I do recall hearing that Bloodlines was delayed to coincide with HL2's release, but wasn't that just because Valve wanted to debut their proprietary engine on their own game?

I don't think Valve did anything malicious like SK accuses Epic of doing.
4 years ago
crestfallen wrote
^ Are you sure about that HL2 example? I do recall hearing that Bloodlines was delayed to coincide with HL2's release, but wasn't that just because Valve wanted to debut their proprietary engine on their own game?

I don't think Valve did anything malicious like SK accuses Epic of doing.
No, it wasnt anything even remotely as malicious; I believe in the end it was Activision that pulled the chains to make sure Bloodlines didnt see the light of day until Half Life 2 (thanks to Valve's influence). It was ready to go a few weeks before as I recall, but got released on the same day as far as I know, which was a poor choice as it overshadowed this brilliant game completely.
4 years ago
ObsoletE wrote
Half-Life 1 is based on the QuakeWorld engine. essentially a Quake 1.5 engine. (it used some of the tech from the Quake 2 engine, but was the Quake engine at it's roots.)

i agree with some of the sentiment though, i think a lot of times, games that use 3rd party engines don't stray too far from the initial engine that they seem too "same-y".

but then there are usually some awesome titles from companies that take the engine and seriously twist it to their own ends. Half-Life 1 is a prime example. compare it to SiN, which is a Quake 2 engined game released at the same time as HL, it just doesn't compare, and is mostly why HL became such a powerhouse game when SiN didn't.

Call of Duty 1 was built on the Quake 3 engine, same as Medal of Honor: Allied Assault, but these were several years apart, so it serves more as an indication on how new ideas can exploit an engine fully.

not to mention the RenderWare engine - you've probably got several games using this engine on your shelf.
Haha..damn I knew I shouldnt've used the Half-Life series because I actually only meant Half-Life 2 (i'm pretty sure this uses it's own engine) cuz Half-Life one was just another generic shooter for me along with Call of Duty and Medal of Honor.
4 years ago
S.Jaworski wrote
crestfallen wrote
^ Are you sure about that HL2 example? I do recall hearing that Bloodlines was delayed to coincide with HL2's release, but wasn't that just because Valve wanted to debut their proprietary engine on their own game?

I don't think Valve did anything malicious like SK accuses Epic of doing.
No, it wasnt anything even remotely as malicious; I believe in the end it was Activision that pulled the chains to make sure Bloodlines didnt see the light of day until Half Life 2 (thanks to Valve's influence). It was ready to go a few weeks before as I recall, but got released on the same day as far as I know, which was a poor choice as it overshadowed this brilliant game completely.
I'm fairly certain that (here at least) Bloodlines came out a week or so before Half-life 2 did. Part of the excitement of getting it (aside from it being a new V:TM game) was that it gave us the chance to see the source engine in action a little early.
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