Microsoft hit with second 360 suit

360 News | Return of the scratched discs.

Information Week reports that Microsoft has been hit with a second suit over alleged damage to discs through normal use of the Xbox 360. This follows the suit raised in Florida reported on previously. Neither suit involves issues covered under the extension of the Xbox 360 warranty period to three years.

Christine Moskowitz and Dan Wood, two Californian residents, allege that the games they purchased were rendered unusable after a few months, displaying the same the circular scratch marks alleged in the other. For the details hungry, Moskowitz apparently lost Gears of War, Crackdown, and Saints Row, and Wood apparently lost Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell.

Microsoft was apparently somewhat unsympathetic, again refusing to replace the games for free or reimburse Moskowitz and Wood. The suit therefore alleges that, "Microsoft improperly and/or negligently manufactured the Xbox 360 console in a manner that causes the expensive game discs ... to be scratched, rendering the games unusable."

The plaintiffs are seeking not less than US$5 million in damages, a similar amount to the action raised in Florida. Wood and Moskowitz argue that, "Microsoft's rush to market, while positive for Microsoft, was detrimental to consumers because the Xbox 360 suffered from numerous hardware defects."

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26 Comments

Marka

4 years ago

If M$ offered to replace them for free I don't see what the problem is. Someone is just tyring to get rich quick.

Skiller

4 years ago

Marka wrote

If M$ offered to replace them for free I don't see what the problem is. Someone is just tyring to get rich quick.

The problem is M$ refused to do so, and probably wouldn't be able to anyway since they don't own the majority of games and would need to get them from the game publisher.

john_solids

4 years ago

will xbox be still around next year? if problems like these keep coming up i think it might be canned.

DrTim

4 years ago

^ Lol, well I guess we'll see soon enough.

Rob_Jedi

4 years ago

Why do they always go straight to 5 million ? Is this so they can get talked down to say hmm $1000 settlement out of court or something?

ittekimasu

4 years ago

Interesting to see how M$ are getting sued more often due to this fault from scratching discs, maybe peter moore saw this and jumped ship.

BovineDeath

4 years ago

My first 360 did this, so I sent it away, got a new one back within a couple of days and I have not had a problem since. If you take the discs to a video rental store, they should be able to buff the scratches out for you, that's what I did.
Beyond that, Microsoft should replace the scratched discs, it is the result of a hardware fault.

Qbert

4 years ago

Good to see this news getting some media attention. Hopefully if enough people conplain, go to court etc. Microsoft will either refund games or make their consoles better.

ugh the boot

4 years ago

I hope Microsoft cop it hard! I've always said they cheated by rushing their console to the market to get a leg up on the Ps3 and it looks like this has come back and given them a solid kick in the balls! Awesome stuff! I love being right!! I LOVE IT!

BovineDeath

4 years ago

It's not only Microsoft.
I brought a Playstation when they first launched (yes I'm old) and at the last minute Sony had decided to replace a metal part with a plastic part which meant the much vaunted FMV didn't work, games crashed and eventually wouldn't load. It took weeks to get a replacement.
My PSP has a dead pixel, and guess what? Sony refused to fix it.
When I sent my 360 back, I had a replacement within 3-4 days (I remember it was back before the weekend). Microsoft did (still do?) have some problems with 360 reliability, but the facts that they extended the warranty for 3 years and send replacements back so quickly counts for something. The 360 still has the best library of the 3 current gen consoles, and the 360 vs PS3 comparisons usually tip towards the 360. I hope that the new 65nm process and improved DVD-ROM will rectify the problems - new users will have a more reliable console, and with 3 years warranty anybody with an unreliable console can send it in and get a better one!

john_solids

4 years ago

BovineDeath wrote

i had a dead pixel on my psp and sony fixed it free of charge. i guess they didnt like you haha.
and the library of games doesnt help when the xbox scratches them.

ugh the boot

4 years ago

the difference here is people are explaining a couple of isolated little problems they experienced but the X60 scratching disc, 3-red-rings etc are universal problems....almost all machines will probably experience it at some stage because of the actual design of the thing.

I've still got my very first playstation....yes the launch model and it works better than every other machine I have (bar the wii and ps3).

The 65nm and new dvd-rom is all talk! I'll believe it when I see it!

Jedi.Jell

4 years ago

BovineDeath wrote

My PSP has a dead pixel, and guess what? Sony refused to fix it.

Apparently you can fix that by looping a video which flashes red, green and blue and leaving it running for like a day.

ugh the boot wrote

Shut up and stop being stupid. This is what the world has come to, 5 games scratched, totalling what? No more then AUS$600, add a new, working console to that, premium of course, and we're looking at no more then AUS$1200.

So what do they do? Sue Microsoft for $5 Million.

Damn selfish, money grabbing people.

john_solids

4 years ago

they are suing because MS refused to replace the discs, if MS would of just replaced the disc that their console ruined then they wouldnt be in this position.

"Microsoft was apparently somewhat unsympathetic, again refusing to replace the games for free or reimburse Moskowitz and Wood. The suit therefore alleges that, "Microsoft improperly and/or negligently manufactured the Xbox 360 console in a manner that causes the expensive game discs ... to be scratched, rendering the games unusable.""

Jedi.Jell

4 years ago

john_solids wrote

I didn't say they weren't right in suing, I said they weren't right to sue for 5 Million Dollars.

john_solids

4 years ago

but suing for $2000 or whatever wouldnt make a difference to MS but $5mil will make them think twice.

Jedi.Jell

4 years ago

john_solids wrote

but suing for $2000 or whatever wouldnt make a difference to MS but $5mil will make them think twice.

Don't be naive, as much as you want it to be, this has nothing to do with bringing Microsoft down. This is all about making money, quickly.

and who are you kidding, 5 Mill is nothing to Microsoft, what would be hurting them is the negative publicity.

ugh the boot

4 years ago

Jedi.Jell wrote

Oh $1200 really? I suppose you've asked everyone that owns one whether or not it's a problem with them aswell? So all up $1200 in total disc damages in the whole world aye? Yea it can't really be a problem then....i mean only 2 people are suing for 5 million each so it's not a big deal really. How dare these people try and rip off such a nice innocent company like mircosoft!!

Yea lets sue for $1200, just enough to make the money on those games back. Screw lawyers fees and screw actually making some money off the whole debacle! I mean Microsoft charge us exactly what it's costs them for all their products so why should we try and make any money off them.

Grow a brain!

john_solids

4 years ago

i dont want to see MS go down, i know its people being greedy, but it is gonna make other people wanna do the same thing which would make it a hell of a lot more then $5m so it will make them think of what they are doing. Its an allround bad situation for MS

Jedi.Jell

4 years ago

ugh the boot wrote

Jedi.Jell wrote

Hahahah!

So I forgot lawyer fees, I'm pretty sure it's still nowhere near $5mill.

I'm not talking about everyone suing Microsoft at once, I'm talking about one person, suing Microsoft, for one problem. I hate to tell you buddy, but if everyone who owned an Xbox 360 with a problem sued Microsoft for $1200 then they'd soon sit up and take notice.

You summed it up nicely yourself, only 2 people are suing Microsoft. I've been to many Xbox 360 forums, I know many people with Xbox 360's... how many of them complain of the console scratching their disks? Guess...

Zero.

How do you know this isn't an isolated issue, how do you know that these people haven't been turning their console on it's side while it's playing a disk, which we already know puts a giant circular scratch on them.

So, from what we know, there are two people who have had this problem. (Remember, this is what we know of).
... and you can usually get scratches fixed at a video store for about $5.

These two people are suing Microsoft... for 5 Million Dollars which is a damn lot more, some would even say an excessive amount more, then
what it would cost to fix the problem in the first place.

Looks to me like there's a bandwagon for people who want to get rich quick. Maybe I should scratch some of my disks and jump right on.

Oh and by the way, Microsoft makes a loss on every console sold, they're not even selling them at cost price. The only company making profit is Nintendo, keep that in mind before you accuse Microsoft of charging too much for it's console and making money off us.

Crestfallen

4 years ago

Jedi.Jell you obviously haven't studied law before. To see people sue for more than out of pocket expenses is totally normal, and seeing that qualified lawyers (ie. not you) filed the case, its obviously not as out-landish of a claim as you think. You don't simply say, "well two games were scratched so I'll sue for $200."

Spanca or The Brett could clear this up properly.

ugh the boot

4 years ago

Jedi.Jell wrote

I'm not talking about everyone suing Microsoft at once, I'm talking about one person, suing Microsoft, for one problem. I hate to tell you buddy, but if everyone who owned an Xbox 360 with a problem sued Microsoft for $1200 then they'd soon sit up and take notice.

You summed it up nicely yourself, only 2 people are suing Microsoft. I've been to many Xbox 360 forums, I know many people with Xbox 360's... how many of them complain of the console scratching their disks? Guess...

Zero.

How do you know this isn't an isolated issue, how do you know that these people haven't been turning their console on it's side while it's playing a disk, which we already know puts a giant circular scratch on them.

So, from what we know, there are two people who have had this problem. (Remember, this is what we know of).
... and you can usually get scratches fixed at a video store for about $5.

These two people are suing Microsoft... for 5 Million Dollars which is a damn lot more, some would even say an excessive amount more, then
what it would cost to fix the problem in the first place.

Looks to me like there's a bandwagon for people who want to get rich quick. Maybe I should scratch some of my disks and jump right on.

I know it's a problem because it's happened to me! I've mentioned this heaps of times before but seeing as you're new....my 360 scratched up my Lost Planet (collectors ed), Gears of War and Test Drive Unlimited discs....so I know from personal experience. Hey I might not sue Microsoft for $5mil but i'd definately sue them for a hefty amount. I'm just glad because Microsoft deserve this more than those people don't deserve the 5 mil (if that makes sense). If 2 people both sue for 5 mil each these stories start popping up on sites like this and it becomes a real problem for microsoft because of pad publicity and the fact that they might lose heaps of money...so these people are probably the only ones that are gonna get any sorts of results out of microsoft....which is exacly what I want because it might prompt some change for the rest of us.

I wasn't talking about Microsoft's consoles only....I was talking about ALL microsoft products! So just because they are selling their consoles for less than it takes to manufacture them doesn't mean every other product they make is the same.

Jedi.Jell

4 years ago

crestfallen wrote

Jedi.Jell you obviously haven't studied law before. To see people sue for more than out of pocket expenses is totally normal, and seeing that qualified lawyers (ie. not you) filed the case, its obviously not as out-landish of a claim as you think. You don't simply say, "wel

l two games were scratched so I'll sue for $200."

Spanca or The Brett could clear this up properly.

I never said that the claim was outlandish, I said that it's sad when the world comes to this.

Do you honestly think the damages are worth $5 Million? Not if they are normal in a legal suit, but if they are worth it.

Just because something is normal doesn't make it right.

Crestfallen

4 years ago

^ Of course not, but that's how damages seem to play out in court.

I wish I knew more about the crazy judicial system, but I am pretty sure they'll never get that amount in their pockets from a few scratched games. Its more of a ask-big-to-make-our-problem-seem-more-significant technique.

We've seen it before. Even if the court rules in favour of the plantiff, MS will appeal for a smaller amount of compensation and then the plantiff will have to justify, in court, why damages are worth 5 million. End result? Plantiff gets a few thousand and their lawyer fees covered.

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