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Fetidchimp
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 Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Is this really how you want to present yourselves to your peers? How do you think this looks? |
i would ask the same thing
also you ask for order, yet remove those that would normally keep this order.
all this leading up to this point seems to be a case of one thing being said and actions being the opposite, i honestly do not understand why it was allowed to get to this point in the first place.
any type of course in business will tell you that communication is a key factor in being successful, and now we have a great example of a lack of that, leading to this.
I don't think the forum is that bad at the moment anyway, i have tried to just keep plugging away as normal but i think the discussions of it being anarchy out in the wild is making seem a lot worse than it is....
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B-Zero
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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I agree.. chaos never solved anything so whats the point?
Palgn will be abandoned soon, so lets make the most of our fleeting time together without fighting, abusing or rioting except against Roland!
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ThunderCurls
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pom013
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| B-Zero wrote: | I agree.. chaos never solved anything so whats the point?
Palgn will be abandoned soon, so lets make the most of our fleeting time together without fighting, abusing or rioting except against Roland! |
| B-Zero wrote: | I like him, seems like a reasonable chap and has explained himself clearly and honestly.
Why all you people hatin? Palgn provided a free service for almost a decade. Boohoo.
Thanks Roland! |
Arrrg!!!
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jprockbelly
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: |
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This is an open Letter to Discosis,
When I first started reading your post I was happy. I thought finally someone is attempting to take the reigns and bring a little direction to the chaos that has ensued in the last few day. (I have to admit that the chaos was pretty fun for a while, but is beginning to get tiresome.) But upon re-reading your post something didn’t quite sit right with me. Then it hit me!
Middle management.
As someone who has a career in Government, and deals with the hideous juggernaut of bureaucracy on a daily basis, your letter left me with a bit of a sick feeling. It reminded me of so many directives, memos, guidelines and impersonal department-wide emails vainly trying to address problems the author didn’t understand or didn’t care about.
Here is a brief list of things that annoyed me in your Letter.
- You have written a letter to the staff but not bothered to even address it to them.
- You have addressed the letter to me (I’m a user) but not bothered to address any of my concerns, or even acknowledge that I might have some.
- You have completely failed to address any of the criticism directed at yourself or Roland.
- Your letter stinks of blame, until Roland (or yourself maybe) sincerely admits at least partial responsibility for what has happened people will always see you as evil.
- Your letter has an unbelievably condescending tone.
- You make no reference to removal of all the mods.
- You advocate dialogue, but dialogue requires two voices.
- And finally you have the audacity to ask us “is it worth it?”. Well that really depends on what PALGN is worth to you. What is PALGN worth to you Jason?
With the negative out of the way (and sorry that was quite negative) I’d like to echo some of the other users and offer you some advice. The staff have spoken for themselves, but if you want to get the user-base onside here are some requests:
- INTERACT WITH US – read some threads, post your opinions, get to know us, let us get to know you. If you do nothing else this will go a long way to getting everyone onside.
- Reinstate the moderations team – they did a fine job and were well liked.
- People aren’t stupid, we have all read your posts, we have all read Roland’s posts, we have all read the leaked posts from the staff forum. We know what is going on. Don’t pretend like the staff are just raging for no reason. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for the running of the site, and do it with ACTIONS not words.
- Do not treat us like customers, we are not a target audience, we are people.
Until you do these things I will continue to view you as middle management. Blindly forging ahead with your own ideas, telling those under you what they should think while ignoring all their requests.
Look forward to seeing more of you on the boards,
John
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BurnZ
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: Re: An open letter to all PALGN users |
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Can I ask you about your account?
It is originally yours? Or did you take a random "vintaged" unused account?
Cause there are only 2 posts before the s**tstorm from 2006 and *poof* it was 2011 and admin access was given.
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: |
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yeah I'm with JP on this one, that was the most insincere load of shit I've ever read.
If you really want to actually mend the damage you guys have done. A great first step would be for Roland to come in and explain just what the hell happened. Why the staff were ignored to the point were they quit, why the mods are being removed without any reasons, I mean hell even if the answer doesn't make Roland look good, honesty would be a big improvement over this spin we've been getting.
I think what you are kind of failing to realize is that for a fairly large portion of the community the staff weren't staff, there people we became friends with. So we're understandably pissed off at what happened to them.
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Cyph
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Here here jprockbelly, a beautiful post. I'm in a similar position to you, I work with government agencies and their departments/services, and you're right; that letter reaked of insincerity and any responsibility of what has happened and what could be done.
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Furianshi
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | I think what you are kind of failing to realize is that for a fairly large portion of the community the staff weren't staff, there people we became friends with. So we're understandably pissed off at what happened to them. |
What happened to them though? They quit. Going by the pastebin thing we all saw, this is how I interpreted it: Roland asked staff what they need to do to fix the site, a bunch of people abused him. He eventually came back and tried to get things on track with a positive manner, more abuse and then everyone quit.
What happened to the staff? They all chucked a hissy fit and quit. Why? Well it mostly seems that it was because James V was replaced as the site techie. And Roland's a noob. And it's not his place to do that. And how dare he etc.
I think James V summed it up pretty well yesterday when he said:
| Quote: | | Either buy shares in tissue companies now or take a spoonful of cement, harden the fuck up, and leave. |
I mean, the staff here have done an awesome job over the past few years, and I appreciate it as much as the next person. But due to some internal squabble that we, the general public, know very little about, they quit. Jumping on some Roland hate bandwagon with only one side of the story is a bit dumb I think.
And it's too bad some of the mods have lost their rank recently, but they haven't exactly been doing their jobs.
Btw, that reminds me, has anyone seen theory?
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Jumping on some Roland hate bandwagon with only one side of the story is a bit dumb I think.
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Which is exactly why I said it would be a great first step if Roland actually came in here and explained his side of the story.
See this bit?
| Quote: | | A great first step would be for Roland to come in and explain just what the hell happened. |
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Last edited by Benza on Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total
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ThunderCurls
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Furianshi wrote: |
What happened to them though? They quit. Going by the pastebin thing we all saw, this is how I interpreted it: Roland asked staff what they need to do to fix the site, a bunch of people abused him. He eventually came back and tried to get things on track with a positive manner, more abuse and then everyone quit.
What happened to the staff? They all chucked a hissy fit and quit. Why? Well it mostly seems that it was because James V was replaced as the site techie. And Roland's a noob. And it's not his place to do that. And how dare he etc.
I think James V summed it up pretty well yesterday when he said:
| Quote: | | Either buy shares in tissue companies now or take a spoonful of cement, harden the **** up, and leave. |
I mean, the staff here have done an awesome job over the past few years, and I appreciate it as much as the next person. But due to some internal squabble that we, the general public, know very little about, they quit. Jumping on some Roland hate bandwagon with only one side of the story is a bit dumb I think. |
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Furianshi
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | Quote: | Jumping on some Roland hate bandwagon with only one side of the story is a bit dumb I think.
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Which is exactly why I said it would be a great first step if Roland actually came in here and explained his side of the story.
See this bit?
| Quote: | | A great first step would be for Roland to come in and explain just what the hell happened. |
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Oh, like if he explained something personal, like how recently he underwent open heart surgery?
Clearly the deck is stacked against the guy, look at all the hate on this forum. Anything he says will be met with a wall of negs.
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jprockbelly
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: |
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And the bickering continues.... remind me never to get a job teaching kinder.
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B-Zero
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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A call for peace has turned into an attack on the author and yet another attack on Roland.
The riots continue.
Edit: In2late.
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GooberMan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Furianshi wrote: | | Oh, like if he explained something personal, like how recently he underwent open heart surgery? |
Or, as recently explained to the staff, he had wisdom teeth removed.
I don't know how much you know about open heart surgery, but there's no way they'd risk it if he just had wisdom teeth removed.
Honestly, saying the story is one sided is the exact mentality that the RIAA and MPAA used recently complaining that Google and Wikipedia didn't give them a chance to hear their side of the argument - you know, they that own the music and movie distribution channels. Roland's the site owner, he has admin access, he can do whatever the hell he wants with the site including telling everyone his side of the story.
So why doesn't he?
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Man I'm not doing this again with you Furianshi.
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Jeremy
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I suppose that I should give some clarification.
My comment on the wisdom teeth was that Roland had previously communicated with myself and Adam that he was having his wisdom teeth removed (last quarter of 2011). However, he has never communicated with us that we was about to undergo, or had under gone, open heart surgery until the email that was sent last Friday.
Given our history of communication issues and the following silent removal of access (which both sides can argue was done for the right or wrong reasons), this immediately had set off alarm bells fo me. Whether or not it's true, it's not my place to judge nor associate it with the past issues. However, had we indeed we been given past notification that such a serious medical ailment, it would have given us a chance to modify our stance.
A serious question I would also like to ask, would it not have been more prudent to actually consider whether PALGN was worth holding onto when such serious issues were at stake? Personally, while I've openly stated my discontent with management, further reason I've left is that I had enough of everything and was doing harm to myself, and those close to me. At the end, I've left because it was not worth sticking around, from multiple perspectives.
I'm not willing to engage in anymore slagging - my opinion and stance on the matter is well publised by now. All I want to do is move on from things now.
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Fly
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| jprockbelly wrote: | | And the bickering continues.... remind me never to get a job teaching kinder. |
They're more well behaved, as you can merely empty a table grad some paint and go "paint it, I'm going out for a coffee" and they're good for 20mins. Sure, you'll spend time cleaning up afterwards, but it never really gets to any unsustainable point. It's those prep kids you need to worry about social cliques and gang warfare over the term "popular" and which one is getting the newest iPad.
But then, I hated kinder, it was the bane of my existence as I got pulled out to pop into the royal childrens, came back and all pictures I have bar one are of me in tears as all my previous friends had vanished. Oh and they made me a sheep in the nativity play, me, who went on to chair a choir and lead school plays. Obviously they had no idea of my past talent skills! 
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Fyuusii
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Furianshi wrote: | | I mean, the staff here have done an awesome job over the past few years, and I appreciate it as much as the next person. But due to some internal squabble that we, the general public, know very little about, they quit. Jumping on some Roland hate bandwagon with only one side of the story is a bit dumb I think. |
Stating that there's two sides to every story doesn't automatically invalidate the first side heard. There's very little evidence to support anyone in Roland's camp, coupled with the fact that not only is he reluctant to stand up to the criticism directly, but he employs his lead techie to quell the masses; an individual well versed in a lack of public relations skill.
Honestly, Discosis reminds me of a technician I liaised with for a corporate client some time ago, who claimed to have Cisco certification, but didn't know how to bridge a modem. You figure that one out.
| Furianshi wrote: | | Btw, that reminds me, has anyone seen theory? |
You lost any impartial credit I (and many others) were to give you with that poor form of comment.
If you want to comment objectively, keep your forked tongue in your mouth.
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Furianshi
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Fyuusii wrote: | | Furianshi wrote: | | I mean, the staff here have done an awesome job over the past few years, and I appreciate it as much as the next person. But due to some internal squabble that we, the general public, know very little about, they quit. Jumping on some Roland hate bandwagon with only one side of the story is a bit dumb I think. |
Stating that there's two sides to every story doesn't automatically invalidate the first side heard. |
But we don't really even have a first side to the story. Well, apart from "Roland is a cunt" and the pastebin thing and everyone quitting. People are just reading what they want between the lines and supporting the faces they are familiar with.
| Fyuusii wrote: | | Furianshi wrote: | | Btw, that reminds me, has anyone seen theory? |
You lost any impartial credit I (and many others) were to give you with that poor form of comment.
If you want to comment objectively, keep your forked tongue in your mouth. |
What makes you feel so special that you think you're speaking for 'many others' here, who apparently share your lack of humour? It was a joke. Have you seen his last post?
| jprockbelly wrote: | | And the bickering continues.... remind me never to get a job teaching kinder. |
So, if it goes against the outspoken consensus, it's childish bickering? Look at your wall of text a couple of posts above mine. What do you call that?
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Fyuusii
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Furianshi wrote: | | Fyuusii wrote: | | Furianshi wrote: | | I mean, the staff here have done an awesome job over the past few years, and I appreciate it as much as the next person. But due to some internal squabble that we, the general public, know very little about, they quit. Jumping on some Roland hate bandwagon with only one side of the story is a bit dumb I think. |
Stating that there's two sides to every story doesn't automatically invalidate the first side heard. |
But we don't really even have a first side to the story. Well, apart from "Roland is a ****" and the pastebin thing and everyone quitting. People are just reading what they want between the lines and supporting the faces they are familiar with. |
I'm sorry, were you waiting to hear the "once upon a time" before you started counting?
If Roland were intelligent, cunning even, he could have easily turned the slow exodus in his favour by fabricating the scenario. Heck, he could even start telling the "truth". However, regardless of what you consider "truth"; nothing substantial has come out of his mouth and he has been dodging legtimate query and criticism for more than a reasonable period of time.
If you're trying to defend him on the basis of the shadow of doubt, you're starting to look like Garrett (Thief) clinging onto a blob of black in an open field of the plainest of daylight.
| Fyuusii wrote: | | Furianshi wrote: | | Btw, that reminds me, has anyone seen theory? |
You lost any impartial credit I (and many others) were to give you with that poor form of comment.
If you want to comment objectively, keep your forked tongue in your mouth.
What makes you feel so special that you think you're speaking for 'many others' here, who apparently share your lack of humour? It was a joke. Have you seen his last post? |
I'm just getting tired of people taking swipes at the mods (ex- or otherwise). They are real people like the rest of us and they will handle the situation in their own individual manners.
No one opinion is stronger than any other here. If you're going to start bringing delusions of granduer into the debate, you're basicaslly falling victim to them in the process.
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They cannot fear..."
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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ooh someone else is trying to reason with Furinashi
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Smurf80
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ThunderCurls wrote: | The forums aren't as bad as you make them to be Discosis/Jason. There are normal and civil discussions taking place, but by that same token systematically demoting the moderation team here doesn't help you.
The people burnt by Roland deserve to have their opinion heard. |
For once I actually agree with you on this, the staff are entitled to vent their frustrations because they are in the thick of it BUT to all the other people that are jumping on the bandwagon for kicks and giggles is the issue I have.
Go check out Ken_Gooners thread on "what the **** just happened" and you will see what I mean waste of time posting it except to call names and jump on the hate wagon.
The site's owner owes the STAFF explanantions on why things have happened the way they have because of all the time and effort they have put into this site, he (the site owner) doesnt owe US the userbase ANYTHING the sooner you all realise that the better.
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GooberMan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Smurf80 wrote: | | he (the site owner) doesnt owe US the userbase ANYTHING |
I love how this always crops up in community meltdowns.
Without a userbase, a site's owner has no one to read content and no one to (attempt to) make money off.
PALGN certainly wasn't the only site out there writing high quality content, but it did crop up in the right place at the right time and got this community out of it. Passing off said community does nothing but put a site back at square one.
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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He doesn't owe us anything sure. But we don't owe him anything either.
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