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GooberMan
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 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| FeralOni wrote: | | GooberMan wrote: | | ... and even then the DirectDraw implementation utterly fails at rendering anything viewable by humans that aren't high on mushrooms. |
and that's a BAD thing??? |
When you don't have mushrooms, absolutely.
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Benza
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:50 am Post subject: |
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If you're saying that 80% of games recylce gampelay from the previous gen, then every game that uses one of the gameplay innovations from current gen isn't part of that 80%
Also on the whole no real wii games count, that's bullshit. Sure something like say the new goldeneye could be emultated on current gen consoles and replace the motion controlls with a normal controller. But it doesn't mean it would be good (And from reports it isn't) a lot of games use of motion controlls may not be absoultley integral to the experience, but they add and evolve the experience beyond what it would be otherwise, and that's how innovation works.
You seem to be after innovation as some great big leap where suddenly everything is done wildly different. That's not what innovation is. Innovation is a slow and steady progress, little things that then get built upon by other little things etc etc. You take halo's blueprint, then add perks for multiplayer in Cod, then take the multiplayer perks and apply them to how you drive a vehicale in battlefield. That's how innovation works.
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emech
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | That's not what innovation is. Innovation is a slow and steady progress, little things that then get built upon by other little things etc etc. You take halo's blueprint, then add perks for multiplayer in Cod, then take the multiplayer perks and apply them to how you drive a vehicale in battlefield. That's how innovation works. |
No that evolution. Innovation is the introduction of a new concept (and goldeneye is a n64 remake so isnt innovative at all)
Innovation is the genre introductions of the 80s (See Genre innovation paragraph here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_video_games)
Innovation is the 1990s include the transition from raster graphics to 3D graphics , first-person shooter, real-time strategy, and MMO eg. Dune II (RTS) Alone in the Dark (survival horror) Maxis sims series (sim city, not the sims - though that counts too), 3D accelerator cards use in FPS, Thief: The Dark Project (stealth)
The next innovation was the 32 bit error with 3d platforming (mario 64) split-screen console FPS (goldeneye) and action/adventre (zelda) - though action/adventure evolutions contiued in last gen with the likes of GTA3.
I've already outlined what this gen brought NEW to the table, that is innovated - not HD upscaled or trickle down implemented.........
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emech
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Having gone through the top 100 (metacritc) for the current gen I would say these titles are innovative:
World of Goo - puzzle design
Art of Balance - motion implementation in puzzle desgin
Boom Blox - on consideration preceeded by wii sports
Super Paper Mario - 2d/3d level design
No More Heroes 1 /2 - wii mote control implementation
Swords & Soldiers - 2d RTS
de Blob - wall colouring dynamic
Wii Sports - motion control (including ball throwing preceeding boom blox)
Red Steel 1/ 2 - (sword play)
Wii Fit -(balance board)
Portal1/ 2 - (portals / puzzle design)
Assassin's Creed (parkour as movment system in open world games)
Fallout 3 (VATS system in 3d)
Burnout Paradise (precurser to NFS:HP autolog system)
Gears of War (cover based shooting)
Super Meat Boy (level design)
Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords (RPG match 3 intergration)
and would add the club (as a precurser to bullletstorm - environmental score based FPS)
and we seem to have hi-jacked this thread - should we create a new one?
EDITED for innovation provided by title
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Last edited by emech on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Benza
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:20 am Post subject: |
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by that logic though, any generation has only had a handful of acutall innovative games?
So it seems pretty much par for the course that we have about the same amount of innovative games this gen as we have had in say the 32 bit era?
What's your actual point that your making here then? That progress is continuing at a steady rate?
[edit]Also a lot of the games you listed as inovative would really be more or the evolution stuff.
Portal for Nabtracular Drop
Super Meat Boy really doesn't do anything new. It just does what it does really well (And
Fallout 3 just added guns to the same formula that oblivion used (Wich I'm pretty sure was just built on Morrowind)
Burnout Paradise is burnout crossed with GTA (Or Driver)
etc etc
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emech
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | by that logic though, any generation has only had a handful of acutall innovative games?
So it seems pretty much par for the course that we have about the same amount of innovative games this gen as we have had in say the 32 bit era?
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Yep that is my point! The 360/ps3 generation has been mostly HD "remakes" of previous generations gameplay. The settings/characters/stories have changed, but the gameplay has largely stayed the same. Apart from HD presentation and some notable exceptions, you can get the same gameplay experience on the ps2 (and gamecube) as we get for 80% of the current gen. So - on topic - complaining that HD remakes have "gone to far" is stupid, as (I have argued) 80% of the games we play are HD "remakes" anyway (as opposed to the "100% untrue" comment suggested by Esposch)
| Benza wrote: |
Portal for Nabtracular Drop
Super Meat Boy really doesn't do anything new. It just does what it does really well (And
Fallout 3 just added guns to the same formula that oblivion used (Wich I'm pretty sure was just built on Morrowind)
Burnout Paradise is burnout crossed with GTA (Or Driver)
etc etc |
Portal: Hadn't heard of nabtracular drop
Super meat boy - was in two minds to include this, but again I was unaware of much similar (VVVVVVVV ?)
Fallout 3 - VATS implementation mostly (though again I was in two minds since its a fallout innovation)
Burnout paradise (racing "autolog" inclusion - refined in NFS:HP)
I was erring on the side of benefit when making the list (still got less then 20%)
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Last edited by emech on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:21 pm, edited 2 times in total
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grim-one
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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This generation is all remakes of PS2/cube games? Dude we've all been playing the same games since like 1995 when 3D hit. Some sorts of games predate even that =P
Shooters run back to Quake and Wolf3D and the really old wireframe polygon games before that.
Final Fantasy and RPGs run way, way back all on their own.
3D action adventures like Uncharted are just the latest evolution of Jumpman.
Racing games have always been the same.
/old rant
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Kikujir0
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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No way. I love it, when I found out about the MGS HD collection I died and went back to heaven. It may turn into something hideous in the future but at this point at time it seems fine and under control to me.
If anything I have no idea why they don't just remake FF7 in HD, thats just like instant money there with its insane cult following. Personally I'd like to see FF8 in HD, but one can dream. 
I've been meaning to buy the Shadow of colussus and Ico remakes but totally forgot about it, going to order off ebay right now infact!
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Benza
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Kikujir0 wrote: |
If anything I have no idea why they don't just remake FF7 in HD, thats just like instant money there with its insane cult following. Personally I'd like to see FF8 in HD, but one can dream. |
Cause they were ps1 games not ps2. They can do a HD upscale on PS2 games pretty easy, to redo FF7 they'd have to completly remake the game wich would cost money and time wich kind of goes against the whole "We can push these out quickly while we wait for the new gen consoels" thing that's going on with all of em at the moment.
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GooberMan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Comparatively easy at the very least. The PS1 was from the dark days before people were using OpenGL and Direct3D, and as such the 3D pipeline was far from standard. The PS2 is a far more complicated machine to program than the PS3, but given the standardised nature that code and data went thanks to multi-platform support it is comparatively easy.
With the PS1 Final Fantasy games though, which was a ton of FMV and static backgrounds rendered at low resolution (320x240), you'd either need to re-render everything at 1080p or do it all in real time. And let's face it, people will whinge if it's just a simple re-render.
But hey, they are going to that effort elsewhere. If Jak and Daxter is being upgraded, they would have needed to port/rewrite the entire codebase.
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