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PALGN Moderator
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 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:36 pm Post subject: Superhero Films |
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Some of the other topics are going off on tangents.
Here's somewhere to talk about superhero films as a whole. Why you love them, why you liked them for a while and then got sick of them, why you always hated them, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_superhero_films
^ This list puts into perspective how insane this whole thing has gotten.
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kartanym
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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It kinda ***** me that people are bagging it all. Jesus, it's not the first time a genre has been the primary output for studios. Cowboy films of the early 1900's. Science fiction in the 70's. Teen movies in the 80's. Get over it people, if it's bankable they'll make it no matter how much you bark about it. And if it means the most obscure characters get a chance to shine (hello Ant Man!), I'll enjoy the ride while it lasts.
Just don't remind me about Spiderman 3. K?
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Nietzsche
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:35 am Post subject: |
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I read reviews so I haven't seen a bad superhero movie for a while and in the end a good movie a good movie. Although Origin stories are way over done.
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Benza
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Looking at that list only kind of drives home my point.
Superhero isn't a genre.
I mean you have Green Hornett, Kick-ass, The Dark Knight, Jonah Hex, Hellboy etc.
Those movies aren't similar at all. Some have costumes, some don't, some have super powers some don't, the only thing they really have in common is it's a movie about good guys fighting bad guys.
That could apply to every Hollywood action movie ever made
Saying that superhero movies are getting over done is like saying action movies are getting over done. Cause that's pretty much all they have in common.
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kartanym
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | I mean you have Green Hornett, Kick-ass, The Dark Knight, Jonah Hex, Hellboy etc.
Those movies aren't similar at all.. |
So the fact that they all fight crime in ways that are beyond what we'd classify as a 'normal' human being, beyond the boundaries of law enforcement, while wearing unusual clothing or cosmetics, costume or otherwise, isn't similar?
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Benza
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| kartanym wrote: | | Benza wrote: | I mean you have Green Hornett, Kick-ass, The Dark Knight, Jonah Hex, Hellboy etc.
Those movies aren't similar at all.. |
So the fact that they all fight crime in ways that are beyond what we'd classify as a 'normal' human being, beyond the boundaries of law enforcement, while wearing unusual clothing or cosmetics, costume or otherwise, isn't similar? |
That description only applies to Dark Knight, and Green Hornet.
Hellboy doesn't fight crime, he's a paranormal investigator. He also didn't wear a costume other then a big brown over coat and some jeans.
Jonah Hex was a cowboy he wore cowboy clothes in the old west. That's hardly a costume. Also I'd hardly call it crime fighting, it's a revenge movie (A bad revenge movie but still)
Kick-ass's entire point was that it wasn't beyond the bounds of a normal person. He was a useless normal kid and did about as well as you'd expect from someone.
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mikezilla2
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kartanym wrote: | | Just don't remind me about Spiderman 3. K? |
il make srue you take it to your grave ! 
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Nietzsche
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Benza I agree with you mostly but at the end of kickass two kids take down a mob boss in costumes. It's a great movie but it still follows the tropes of a superhero movie even if it satires some of them.
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ThunderCurls
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Nietzsche wrote: | | Benza I agree with you mostly but at the end of kickass two kids take down a mob boss in costumes. It's a great movie but it still follows the tropes of a superhero movie even if it satires some of them. |
Pretty sure it's a superhero movie. I mean shit, that one girl dodges a bullet.
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Big Pete
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know why people pick on Spiderman 3, the whole trilogy was pretty silly. Fun, but silly.
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Fly
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ThunderCurls wrote: | | Pretty sure it's a superhero movie. I mean ****, that one girl dodges a bullet. |
It is entirely possible to dodge a bullet for it follows a single narrow line and there is lag between it occurring and your positioning. The issue comes with when the dodge took place, as if the bullet is already in motion then yes, impossible, but otherwise if you have a gun pointed at the centre of your forehead, if you move your head to one side and push/pull the gun to the other, there is a very likely chance the only thing you will have is a headache from the sound of a discharged weapon. Sure, you need to be quick in these movements, but it's obscure as opposed to fantastical in nature.
Kick-Ass is also more of a social commentary IMO, there is an inherent difference between "Superhero" movies and Vigilantism just as there is between Occult / paranormal instances. Sure, based off a graphic comic, but that's no different than movies based on novels and they're hardly "Book" movies.
If anything it's an expansion of the Sci-Fi & Fantasy genres, and the "overload" is really in the animation section given that Marvel (at least that's all I've seen thus far) have decided to go the animated comic route with series of books or characters. A throwback to the 80's paper cut outs with voice overs only more/less animation depending on which one you pick up.
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IISpacebreakII
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Well on the topic of superhero films, what would your favourite superhero movie of the past few years be guys?
To be honest, I quite liked Thor. Not so much the gods and the mythological stuff, but the characters were great imo and I know some hated it but the colour in this movie was really whacky, but I liked it alot. It kinda felt ethereal or something.
Loki is also a very good villain, his not the typical type of bad guy, but his much more capable of causing **** to happen imo. There should be more villains like him.
--
On a side note, I had no idea Joss Whedon was directing the Avengers. Man I loved Serenity, I thought Avengers might end up being a balls-up, but my faith has been slightly restored. Hope he pulls it off 
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Big Pete wrote: | | I don't know why people pick on Spiderman 3, the whole trilogy was pretty silly. Fun, but silly. |
Because it's absolute bollocks.
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Big Pete
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | Big Pete wrote: | | I don't know why people pick on Spiderman 3, the whole trilogy was pretty silly. Fun, but silly. |
Because it's absolute bollocks. |
The others were as well really.
Sure, it upped the cheese stakes and was completely rushed but that's about it. The way everybody carries on you'd swear it was Troll 2 or something.
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Pete wrote: |
The others were as well really.
Sure, it upped the cheese stakes and was completely rushed but that's about it. The way everybody carries on you'd swear it was Troll 2 or something. |
1 was average but kind of boring
2 was good
3 was awful.
I mean ignoring my general distaste for the series and McGuire being a fucking horrible spidey. 3 was still really bad. It couldn't decide weather it wanted to be about Venom, Green Goblin 2 or Sandman. It really should have just focused on Green Goblin 2 (And given him a less mountain dew costume) Harry had had plenty of development and focusing on his final turn to a bad guy would have been great. The venom story on it's own would have been tough to fit into a single movie. And the sandman story was just... dumb. (What now he's a tragic villian who also killed Uncle Ben? Huh?)
What's worse then that is that the movies had set up a bunch of villains to use. Man-wolf and Lizard spring to mind immediately. But instead we got two completely new villains that sucked up more screen time then the film had leaving the entire thing a muddled and confused mess.
On the flip side, we got sassy dancing peter punching out MJ, that almost made the movie worth it.
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Big Pete
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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2 doesn't hold up at all, especially after the release of Nolan's Batman series. It's still the same cheesy film, with bad dialogue and some poor acting.
I'm not arguing that 3 is a good movie, because it isn't, I'm just saying the whole series wasn't THAT great. Fun, sure, but hardly the mecha of super hero movies.
With that said, I'm glad they didn't just focus on Green Goblin 2. Yes, the Sandman character was stupid and Venom was really under-developed but the idea of watching another Green Goblin film doesn't seem that appealing. Which is why they should have brought in either Man-Wolf or The Lizard as they had already been introduced and could pad the film out a bit.
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mikezilla2
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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"3 was still really bad. It couldn't decide weather it wanted to be about Venom, Green Goblin 2 or Sandman."
that was-int remis fault tho ....
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Qbert
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Almost the whole cinema was laughing out loud at Spiderman 3. Just saying.
Personally I'm not a big fan of superhero movies, but then again I'm not a big fan of most movies. Would be happy to see the 'genre' or 'craze' of whatever you want to call it, die down a little. That being said, very very excited for the next Batman, but other than that, each movie seems like the one that came before it with pretties sfx. I'm not a comic book fan, not an action movie fan...so there you go.
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DancesInUnderwear
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Big Pete wrote: | | 2 doesn't hold up at all, especially after the release of Nolan's Batman series. It's still the same cheesy film, with bad dialogue and some poor acting. |
Its a comic book movie - these are really par for the course. Yes, its not as 'dark and gritty' as Batman, but we really don't need a whole bunch of 'dark and gritty' superhero movies. The movies were fine.
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Benza
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Big Pete wrote: | | 2 doesn't hold up at all, especially after the release of Nolan's Batman series. It's still the same cheesy film, with bad dialogue and some poor acting. |
2 does hold up because not every hero is Batman. And not every hero should be batman. It's that kind of attitude that fucking ruined comics in the 90's.
Spidey should be nothing like Batman. That's kind of the point the character.
The Nolan batman movies are honestly the worst stuff Nolan has put out, everything about them feels like it's wasting the time of the people involved that could be putting out far better movies then middle of the road 'grim dark' batman movies that ignore the most interesting parts of his character.
Spidey 2 wasn't perfect. But it understood what made Spidey him and what made him appeal to his fans. It had it's flaws to be sure. (Namely McGuire and Kristen Dunst are fucking horrible at there roles) But I would watch that any day over the Nolans Batman movies.
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mikezilla2
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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i think the the point of Nolans batman is being good/ interesting wili appealing to a wide audience AKA not just comic book fans
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Big Pete
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| DancesInUnderwear wrote: | | Big Pete wrote: | | 2 doesn't hold up at all, especially after the release of Nolan's Batman series. It's still the same cheesy film, with bad dialogue and some poor acting. |
Its a comic book movie - these are really par for the course. Yes, its not as 'dark and gritty' as Batman, but we really don't need a whole bunch of 'dark and gritty' superhero movies. The movies were fine. |
And that's why most superhero movies are bad. Excusing them for poor writing just because of it's genre doesn't make them any less of a bad movie.
Movies don't have to be dark or gritty to be considered good but they do have to be well written, acted and presented films. This is where Nolan succeeds as a director over any other superhero movie I've seen.
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Benza
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And that's why most superhero movies are bad. Excusing them for poor writing just because of it's genre doesn't make them any less of a bad movie. |
Again, it's not a genre. And as for better acted/directed etc. Ironman is a better acted, better presented, more consistent and more enjoyable movie then anything Nolan has put out with Batman, and it manages to do it without resorting to the worst aspects of 90's comic books and a stupid gravely voice.
The thing that gets me with the praise around movies like The Dark Knight, is it falls into the worst traps of a typical super hero sequel.
It's unfocused and adds too many characters in, Two face's turn should have been left for the next movie. Instead of just rushing it for the last 10 minutes. The movie ends up focusing on the villains too much instead of the hero the movies named after etc etc. And yet it's hailed as one of the greatest super hero movies of all time? It's a completely average movie saved by Heath Ledger pulling an amazing performance of the Joker. That's really the only thing it has going for it.
And even then, a lot of people didn't like Ledger as the Joker, compared to RDJ as Tony Stark that I have never heard a bad word about. Considering how fucking picky and anal comic book fans are that's kind of amazing.
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JunkInTheBox
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, RDJ is a perfect Tony Stark - he's nailed Tony Stark right off the bat. Christian Bale is good as Bruce Wayne, but his Batman voice is terrible.
Benza, you're right about the Two Face thing - it just felt rushed and they basically eliminated a good foe in the span of 20 mins which kinda feels like the Topher Grace Venom in Spider-man 3. He only really just popped up in the last 20 mins got into a fight and was killed off. Thoroughly disappointing stuff.
In regards to Superhero movies as a whole. Less origin stories and reboots. Just pick the best story arcs and make movies out of that.
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