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fatpizza
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 Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| emech wrote: | | where is your line? |
Common sense?
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Benza
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| emech wrote: | | Wow, just wow. I would think that part of the argument for an 18+ rating is that the industry has "grown up" and can be self-regulating. |
That's... not part of the argument at all. The argument is that adults should be free to choose the content they view and not have moral guidelines dictated on them by others.
| Quote: | Yet certainly the user consensus here seems to be - its a game, anything goes. Even R 18+ rated films have limits (moving to X and beyond) and I do feel that there are some quite obvious things were "entertainment" should not go. Several seem to endorese child killing as OK. where is your line? Child sexual assualt????
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Child Sexual Assault is the subject of numerous films. And not pervy films like serious art films and oscar winning films. Are you saying that games are not able to do that?
The limits on an X rating is showing explicit sexual intercourse. since games are animated I'm not sure if it's even possible to get an X rating in a game? RC for films require explicit sexual intercourse with violence or something similar, again since there are no real people involved in games I'm not sure that's actually an issue?
There is no where that the entertainment industry should be prevented from going, as long as everyone is a willing participant and no one gets hurt.
Read a plot discription for 'A serbian film' (Or... actually maybe don't, that's is some immensly fucked up stuff) why is it ok for a film to be made featuring that stuff but not a game? I can go down to my library and get a coppy of Snuff by Chuck Phalinuk that features a guy going to a gangbang of a woman who he thinks is his mother, then a woman fucking a dead guy while he gets hit with hte paddles till they get fused together at the genitals.
This stuff is ok. But put the same content in a game and it becomes 'maybe entertainment shouldn't go this far' and that's fucked up.
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Karai Pantsu
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Edit: Slow typery and doing stuff at work strikes again - this was in response to emech, if it weren't already obviarse.
So do you feel that the content raised in their review shouldn't be present in literature? How about film? More traditional formats of art, such as painting or sculpture?
Regardless of ones stance on the idea of games being an artform, they are bound by classification guidelines in the various countries that they are legally released in - so long as they conform to these guidelines, it should be up to the individual to discern whether or not the content is appropriate for themselves - and only themselves.
As for greater moral issues and industry self-regulation? We are right now taking part in one of the single largest open forum for discussion that the World has ever had - if the content of a game is found to be too extreme in some way by it's audience, then discussion will naturally follow. If enough people are found to be saying 'you know what, this is not something that I agree with' then developers will likely take notice - of course, whether that's something they actually care about is a different matter.
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emech
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Karai Pantsu wrote: |
Regardless of ones stance on the idea of games being an artform, they are bound by classification guidelines in the various countries that they are legally released in - so long as they conform to these guidelines, it should be up to the individual to discern whether or not the content is appropriate for themselves - and only themselves.. |
point well made..... but then (some) criticise reviewers for pointing out when a title has content of this nature when (i suggest) it is in such reviews a an indivdual can gain the information to choose for themselves.....
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Benza
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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it's not so much that it was mentioned more the way it was mentioned, and more specifically Hex's comments on it (Bajo's seemed to be more "I'm not a fan of that stuff", wich is full fair enough) Hex's comments more seemed to be making a call about certain content not being fit for games.
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Nietzsche
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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The thing about child assault and all that, that type of stuff should be rated at least 21. In a game like saints row that is supposed to be light hearted you can not have it unless your making a hard R type of game which sells maybe a tenth of the units the current Saints Row would have.
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GooberMan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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So, what, it's okay to beat a child when you've come of age, but not when you're a 15 year old playing beat ups with your 10 year old brother?
See why the line's a silly thing?
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sobriquet835
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Nietzsche wrote: | | The thing about child assault and all that, that type of stuff should be rated at least 21. |
Now, see, that's just silly. Unless you're going to change the legal adult age from 18 to 21 there's no legitimate reason to rate ANYTHING worthy of classification beyond 18+.
That being said, there should never be anything in a video game where an adult sexually assaults a child with user input anyway. Explore the theme, sure, but if some dude's a pedo, make that character an NPC.
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Benza
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| sobriquet835 wrote: |
That being said, there should never be anything in a video game where an adult sexually assaults a child with user input anyway |
Why not, and you're not allowed to use your personal feelings as a reason.
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Karai Pantsu
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Will he have to show his workings, Benz? 
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:34 am Post subject: |
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i would rather not see his workings
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sobriquet835
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | sobriquet835 wrote: |
That being said, there should never be anything in a video game where an adult sexually assaults a child with user input anyway |
Why not, and you're not allowed to use your personal feelings as a reason. |
If you're taking emotions out of the picture, Benza, it's impossible to come up with a reason. This sort of depraved shit is just wrong, and it crosses the line. No further explanation should be necessary. If you can't see why, you must be a soulless, emotionless, empty shell of a being.
I know you CAN see why though, which is why you're trying to take feelings out of the equation. Nice try.
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Benza
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| sobriquet835 wrote: |
If you're taking emotions out of the picture, Benza, it's impossible to come up with a reason. This sort of depraved **** is just wrong, and it crosses the line. No further explanation should be necessary. If you can't see why, you must be a soulless, emotionless, empty shell of a being.
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Why does it cross the line more then anything else in a game, why can I jump out of a car with my boys and beat an old lady to death with baseball bats and that's fine?
Look censorship has a place, but it isn't a moral place, censorship shouldn't cast a moral judgement on things. It's a place of protection, snuff movies, child porn etc. Sure any rational person isn't going to enjoy playing a game were you're cast in the light of someone commiting sexual abuse. But if games are to progress as an actual art form rather then just entertainment then they can't only focus on things that are fun. Some of the most amazing movies I've watched are ones that frankly I never want to watch again. Something like Requium for a Dream or Kids.
What you're saying is that games shouldn't have the opportunity to create those kinds of works. And the only reason you can give is 'cause it's icky and I don't like it' well to be frank. Fuck what you like. It's not about what you find worthy for games, it's not about what I find worthy for games or what anyone finds suitable for games. It's about giving the people making the games the opportunity to create games that are seen as more then just entertainment, games that are challenging in ways that aren't defined by a difficulty curve.
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GooberMan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:39 am Post subject: |
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^ This. Pretty much what I've been saying to people in the industry for just about my entire time in it. And another reason why I'll argue that "games" won't ever be considered art but uses of an interactive medium will be.
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Nietzsche
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'm fine with a game that allows you to do that but Saints Row is pretty squarely aimed at kids and should get an MA15. Adding that stuff should be an R and it should be made clear that it isn't for children.
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Benza
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Nietzsche wrote: | | t but Saints Row is pretty squarely aimed at kids |
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what the fuck game have you been seeing? This game has a giant vibrator called the penetrator as a weapon? How in gods name is it aimed at kids?
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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it's good that i just have to wait for you to reply so i don't have to.
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GooberMan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | How in gods name is it aimed at kids? |
Didn't you know? Cartoons are strictly for kids.
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PixieGirl
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe Nietzsche is saying it's immature so a lot of kids will be playing it. Which it is and they will. Look how many kids play COD, from my experience online in those games its more populated by people who are too young to play it than people who are not. So something like Saints Row which is super violent and filled with "humor" such as hitting people with dildos is going to have a lot of young teens playing it
I mean I'm 22 and the game is way too immature for me, but then again I'm female and the game is pretty squarely aimed at guys senses of humor so take that as you will.
I don't agree that it's aimed at kids though. But he's right that a lot of people playing it will be young. The thing that tears the argument up though is that they just shouldn't be playing it.
and I totally agree with Benza about censorship. If you don't like something in a game you don't need to be subjected to it, just don't play it. So theres no need for any kind of censorship and what developers should be allowed to create should totally be at their own discretion.
...and here I go again posting in this thread
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Benza
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ="PixieGirlI mean I'm 22 and the game is way too immature for me |
| PixieGirl wrote: |
Meet Steve, the unconvincing transvestite
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suuure it is
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PixieGirl
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Oh **** you Benza
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Karai Pantsu
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Did lol.
As you said, regardless of the immature 'potty humour' vibe the game is imbued with, the rating (should be an R IMO, GG Australia) isn't aimed at children (kind of, somewhat... yeah, we all know our ratings system is bullshit, but that shouldn't shape development).
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subbastard
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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The collectors edition should come with a life size penetrator.
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Cyph
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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My aunty preordered this for her 8 year old grand-son, who is an absolute twit and the last thing he needs is a game like this. Parents/family = making the wrong decisions and blaming games for failing to bring up their children since the 70s.
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Gamesta
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| sobriquet835 wrote: | | Benza wrote: | | sobriquet835 wrote: |
That being said, there should never be anything in a video game where an adult sexually assaults a child with user input anyway |
Why not, and you're not allowed to use your personal feelings as a reason. |
If you're taking emotions out of the picture, Benza, it's impossible to come up with a reason. This sort of depraved **** is just wrong, and it crosses the line. No further explanation should be necessary. If you can't see why, you must be a soulless, emotionless, empty shell of a being.
I know you CAN see why though, which is why you're trying to take feelings out of the equation. Nice try. |
What a load of BS.
My dad likes all the really gory twisted movies and I really don't like those movies but I would never call my dad souless just because he likes those movies.
I mean I have never watched the Saw movies buecause the stuff that is in those movies I do not wish to see. But I'm not gonna sit here and say that all of you that like those movies are disgusting people.
Hell I don't like watching most horror movies because while I don't mind violence against innocents in video games, I don't like watching innocent people in movies get brutally murdered.
Seeing as we are talking censoresip and stuff, games are banned because they are to impactful yet I haven't played a game yet that is to impactful for me.I thought Manhunt would be to impactful for me but I have played it and it doesn't really bother me.
People say that games are different because you control the violent outcomes.But as you can see movies can get to me FAR more than any game can because I'm killing a bunch of polygons that look like people whereas movies look like real people are being killed.
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