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thelegend2000
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 Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:45 am Post subject: PS4 rumoured |
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A report has appeared in the Japanese press which says Sony is working on a multi-core design for PlayStation 4.
The Japanese website PC Watch reckons that Sony is looking at alternatives to the PS3's Cell architecture, which would hopefully make PS4 easier to develop for.
According to the site (via Kotaku), an early alternative was said to include Intel's Larrabee but that was a non-starter. The firm was also said to be looking at a modified version of the Synergistic Processor Unit. All that's out the window though and Sony is now supposedly working on multi-core designs.
PC Watch also reports that a new handheld will be released before a new home console, which translates to PSP2 going on sale before PS4.
Any developers out there want to suggest a few things Sony's can do to make things easier on you?
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Smurf80
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:05 am Post subject: |
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There has been a PS4 rumors since the PS3 came out, I still very much doubt we will see a new console or handheld anytime soon, especially since they are trying to get the PSPGO off the ground.
Having said that they have probably been testing CPU's and the such since the PS3 came out.
My only suggestion is do not change the architecture, it took how long for developers to figure out the Cell and even some still struggle with it. Changing the design would be a stupid move on Sonys behalf.
EDIT: You should really change the title to "PS4 rumors"
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admeister
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: PS4 rumoured |
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| thelegend2000 wrote: | | PC Watch also reports that a new handheld will be released before a new home console, which translates to PSP2 going on sale before PS4. |
What an amazing prediction.  Rumours are pointless unless they have some kind of solid, factual grounding. Articles like this are just trying to attract hits, there's nothing in there that suggests they have a clue.
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grim-one
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Smurf80 wrote: | | My only suggestion is do not change the architecture, it took how long for developers to figure out the Cell and even some still struggle with it. Changing the design would be a stupid move on Sonys behalf. |
They will change from the Cell - it is a dead end technology and there's no future versions of it. Many-multicore though is the way of the future, so in that respect the development teams still need to get to grips with threading their games.
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thelegend2000
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: PS4 rumoured |
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| admeister wrote: | | thelegend2000 wrote: | | PC Watch also reports that a new handheld will be released before a new home console, which translates to PSP2 going on sale before PS4. |
What an amazing prediction. Rumours are pointless unless they have some kind of solid, factual grounding. Articles like this are just trying to attract hits, there's nothing in there that suggests they have a clue. |
Its no prediction.Sony did approach Intel for chipset powerful then cell processor but with less complex architecture for game development. But they couldnt find Larrabee powerful enough for PS4, hence opt for multi core. here is another article
| Quote: | PC Watch's Hiroshige Goto, citing a number of unnamed sources familiar with Intel's long-awaited Larrabee project, claims that Sony once considered using Intel's proposed architecture in the eventual successor to the PS3, presumably named the PlayStation 4. It was rumored that Intel was pursuing a relationship with Microsoft and Nintendo for their next-generation Xbox and Wii consoles, but considering the recent downsizing of the Larrabee project, it appears Intel was unsuccessful at wooing a major partnership.
According to Goto's sources, Larrabee simply didn't offer the sheer power Sony was looking for. Instead, Sony is likely to pursue one of two options for the PS4: use a modified and improved version of the Cell architecture (as previously rumored), or develop a "normal" multi-core CPU akin to the chips found in personal computers and the Xbox 360. The latter option, of course, would help woo back developers turned off by Cell's unconventional design. However, an unnamed SCE executive isn't counting Intel out of the game yet, noting "Larrabee can help us to plan PS5 and PS6, but it cannot make it into PS4."
Considering Sony has yet to decide on an architecture for PS4, it's clear that Sony's next-generation console is still years away. Good thing too, because by Sony's calculations, PS3 still has seven years of life left in it. |
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Nietzsche
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Cell works great when done right. Considering it's been done right twice means the added power verse the added difficulty it wasn't worth it. I'm thinking multi-core next gen but that's ages and ages away. Plus the PSPgo has bombed hard. Wouldn't be surprised if PSP2 comes out within the next 2 years though.
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thelegend2000
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Nietzsche wrote: | | Cell works great when done right. Considering it's been done right twice means the added power verse the added difficulty it wasn't worth it. |
The only reason PS3 dont have big Game catlog compare to Wii and 360 is CELL. Its very complex architecture scare away quite few developers, but saying that its only reason no one is able to hack PS3.
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He need to cut the ego.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Sony is working on another addition to their highly popular Playstation brand? I'm flabbergasted!
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grim-one
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Nietzsche wrote: | | Cell works great when done right. Considering it's been done right twice means the added power verse the added difficulty it wasn't worth it. |
Just twice? Are you saying only two PS3 games were 'right' then? There's loads of good games to be had, both exclusive and cross-platform.
| thelegend2000 wrote: | | The only reason PS3 dont have big Game catlog compare to Wii and 360 is CELL. Its very complex architecture scare away quite few developers, but saying that its only reason no one is able to hack PS3. |
I'd like to know where you get your numbers from. Looking at metacritic the number of games with 5 or more reviews are:
X360: 794
Wii: 553
PS3: 466
The Wii probably has a load more, but they're shovelware and no one bothered reviewing them. I'm guessing the 300+ extra games for X360 is due to it's early launch and a large number of small Live Arcade games.
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Nietzsche
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'm saying that they have been done to their full potential and been worth the extra programming. I'm talking Ratchet and Uncharted 2. Other games look great but these two games could only have been done with the cell. All other games on the PS3 could have worked with a multi-core or on a 360. Tell me is it worth having Uncharted 2 if the first few years of PS3 had lots of crappy 360 ports and a higher price tag. (Which I know is mostly due to the awesome Blu-ray player attached to the PS3)
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thelegend2000
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| grim-one wrote: | | thelegend2000 wrote: | | The only reason PS3 dont have big Game catlog compare to Wii and 360 is CELL. Its very complex architecture scare away quite few developers, but saying that its only reason no one is able to hack PS3. |
I'd like to know where you get your numbers from. Looking at metacritic the number of games with 5 or more reviews are:
X360: 794
Wii: 553
PS3: 466
The Wii probably has a load more, but they're shovelware and no one bothered reviewing them. I'm guessing the 300+ extra games for X360 is due to it's early launch and a large number of small Live Arcade games. |
I didnt actually look for any numbers. During PS2 era there were so many different games realeasing week after week for ps2 platform.But cant say same for PS3. But now from past few months things have changed they getting some kickass games. Also I rememeber about reading article long time ago how compleximity of cell processor and developers nightmare.
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Island_Wolf
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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There are many games on the PS3 to safely say it's not impossible to program for the PS3 and there are a healthy amount of titles out there. I think the main problem is not the issue of the complexity of the coding required but the amount of time that they are given might not warrant developing the title on the PS3 in a given timeframe.
There are companies out there that prefer to just continuously pump out games asap and I suspect they would be the ones that would complain the most.
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Smurf80
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Killzone 2 says hello along with his good friend Metal Gear Solid 4 
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Frozencry
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| grim-one wrote: |
They will change from the Cell - it is a dead end technology and there's no future versions of it. Many-multicore though is the way of the future, so in that respect the development teams still need to get to grips with threading their games. |
The technology behind Cell is not dead-end tech at all. In fact it's a huge benefit for developers to be coming to grips with the kind of coding Cell requires, because it's a good starting point for the upcoming GP-GPU/OpenCL technology, which uses a similar coding architecture and holds a LOT of power. It's estimated to be 20x faster than modern CPU's.
I don't know huge specifics on it as I'm more on the visuals and GPU side rather than CPU (though GP-GPU is essentially something like using GPU chipsets to do CPU processes), but though Cell won't be manufactured anymore after the PS3s eventual demise, the coding and architecture behind it will certainly remain.
| Island_Wolf wrote: | | There are many games on the PS3 to safely say it's not impossible to program for the PS3 and there are a healthy amount of titles out there. I think the main problem is not the issue of the complexity of the coding required but the amount of time that they are given might not warrant developing the title on the PS3 in a given timeframe. |
It also just comes down to the PS3's own faults/bottlenecks. First party studios are lucky enough to have resources shared between each other, so this essentially cuts out a LOT of development time for optimisations in pipelines and memory management, but yeah a lot of studios outside of this group would have to fend for themselves a whole lote, and it does require a lot of time (and money).
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Nietzsche
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Smurf80 wrote: | | Killzone 2 says hello along with his good friend Metal Gear Solid 4 |
I would agree with MGS4 especially the time it came out. Killzone 2 not so much.
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Smurf80
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Nietzsche wrote: | | Smurf80 wrote: | | Killzone 2 says hello along with his good friend Metal Gear Solid 4 |
I would agree with MGS4 especially the time it came out. Killzone 2 not so much. |
You might not like the game thats up to you but you cant deny the tech that went into creating that game. Uncharted 2 would of borrowed from alot of the stuff GG made up for KZ2.
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Sinthesys
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Island_Wolf wrote: | | There are many games on the PS3 to safely say it's not impossible to program for the PS3 and there are a healthy amount of titles out there. I think the main problem is not the issue of the complexity of the coding required but the amount of time that they are given might not warrant developing the title on the PS3 in a given timeframe. |
Wait, isn't that the same thing? The reason that a short time frame is unreasonable for devopment is a direct result of it being more complex, and consequently harder to develop on. Nobody is saying its impossible, just that it was a bad design choice due to:
| Island_Wolf wrote: |
There are companies out there that prefer to just continuously pump out games asap and I suspect they would be the ones that would complain the most. |
Like it or not, these companies are the bread and butter of a gamer with a large appetite. You can dismiss it as shovelware, but the fact is, that 'group of companies' are churning out some pretty good games, and its a shame that a lot of them end up being unoptimised for the ps3. In a world where all the developers took full advantage of the PS3's hardware, it would undoubtedly be king, but in the real world, the quick buck trumps potential, and that is something you shouldn't pigheadedly oppose, but embrace into your business model.
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Ken_Gooner
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Tech talk confuses me.
Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my PS3 for the time being thank you very much.
I hope to be even happier with it by the end of February.
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Frozencry
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Ken_Gooner wrote: |
Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my PS3 for the time being thank you very much.
I hope to be even happier with it by the end of February. |
I think you summed it up nicely. I'll be furious if MS, Sony and Ninty decide to throw in new consoles sometime within the next 2 years. It's too much money god damnit.
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Nietzsche
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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I find it odd that 5 years into the last cycle we wanted new consoles. Guess cause we paid a bit more we want this cycle to last ages, and the fact that usually at this point the PC is blowing everything else away graphically and that's just not happening this cycle.
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Frozencry
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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^PC is blowing away the consoles by quite a margin honestly, it's just that the technical leaps aren't as pronounced. The PS2 era saw leaps go from DirectX 7 to DirectX 9, and showed massive technical leaps in the form of bump maps, normal maps, higher poly counts and slow progression of multi-core CPU's etc.
This gen is still stuck around the DX9 mark, and because consoles take much more sales than PC now, developers aren't as inclined to focus so much on advancements, just adjustments. That being said, DirectX 11 is looking really powerful and if it lives up to its promise, could show some pretty large (and noticeable) gaps between console and PC. All it needs now is support.
Then comes the GP-GPU tech which hopefully will be ready sometime soon, and that's when we'll start seeing massive jumps.
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thelegend2000
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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PC gaming is expensive. Ps3 console when relased cost $1000 now $500. Pc graphics card itself cost $500 more for PS3 quality gaming.But then one should have equivalent PC hardware and softwareto get full power out of it. A good gaming PC cost $1500 + and you cant buy older models coz of compatible issues. Whereas PS3 u can buy a second hand one and still be able to play games.
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grim-one
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Denny wrote: | | grim-one wrote: | | They will change from the Cell - it is a dead end technology and there's no future versions of it. Many-multicore though is the way of the future, so in that respect the development teams still need to get to grips with threading their games. |
The technology behind Cell is not dead-end tech at all. In fact it's a huge benefit for developers to be coming to grips with the kind of coding Cell requires, because it's a good starting point for the upcoming GP-GPU/OpenCL technology, which uses a similar coding architecture and holds a LOT of power. It's estimated to be 20x faster than modern CPU's. |
Denny, you just elaborated on my second sentence =) As I said multicore processors are the future (Core2-Octo, Larabee, CUDA, GP-GPU, etc). With Cell I was referring to IBM ending development of some of the newer chips they had on their roadmap. I don't believe there are any announced ones left.
| thelegend2000 wrote: | | PC gaming is expensive... |
Gaming in general is expensive. PC simply has different costs. A console unit may be cheaper outright, but you'll generally pair it with a large and expensive TV. Most people will want a computer anyway, so it's not that much more to get one capable running of top-shelf games - I'd say $1000-$1500 is a fair price for a machine that will last you 4-5 years. Consoles games also have a much higher retail price than their PC equivalents, nevermind that you can get things dirt cheap off Steam, Impulse, GOG, or just play freeware or web games all day long.
Why are we arguing about the possibility that Sony is shopping around for a new PlayStation processor anyway? These things start years before they get announced in any form. There's probably a half dozen different PS4 designs or prototypes at Sony already in progress.
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Sinthesys
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say 4-5 years is extremely generous, not to mention the myriad of annoying problems with incompatibilities and bugs that go hand in hand with PC gaming. I'm not sure you can include the cost of a TV with consoles either, as people are buying HD tvs as a standard part of a home entertianment system, used for movies and tv shows too (If you think about it, people are more likely to own a decent TV rather than a decent monitor, so its the PC that encourages additional costs through display devices). I'd have to say the part where PC gaming makes up for price is purely in the games: in all other respects it is more expencive for very little graphical gain.
However, that's just looking at PCs from a purely gaming perspective. Of course it has 1001 uses beyond that and the power and flexibility in customisation that consoles will probably never have. Private servers and the modding scene alone account for an infitiely richer multiplayer experience on a PC over console any day...
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G3ck0
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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A $500 graphics card would be better than the PS3's by far. One as good as the PS3's would cost $100-$200.
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