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Benza
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 Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Man I honestly don't see what the big deal with religion is.
I'll beleive what I want to beleive in.
You beleive what you want to beleive in.
Who gives a shit if you're right or wrong. If beleiving in god, mohamad, bhuda, Odin, Zeus or Nitzche makes you happy, then what buisness is it of anyone else?
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ObsoletE
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| clione wrote: | you want proof of the existence of God?
i've got my eye on you ^^ |
would this be better proof?
oh noes! it's the Eye of Sauron in the sky!
(that is the creation of the Fomalhaut solar system.)
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Sinthesys
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | Man I honestly don't see what the big deal with religion is.
I'll beleive what I want to beleive in.
You beleive what you want to beleive in.
Who gives a **** if you're right or wrong. If beleiving in god, mohamad, bhuda, Odin, Zeus or Nitzche makes you happy, then what buisness is it of anyone else? |
I don't care what you believe in, as long as it doesn't influence me in any way. Unfortunately, religion isn't wholly personal and it finds its way into politics with what I feel are negative results.
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ObsoletE
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | Man I honestly don't see what the big deal with religion is.
I'll beleive what I want to beleive in.
You beleive what you want to beleive in.
Who gives a **** if you're right or wrong. If beleiving in god, mohamad, bhuda, Odin, Zeus or Nitzche makes you happy, then what buisness is it of anyone else? |
the problem arises because religious people (and some non-religious folk) are rarely that tolerant of other people's beliefs.
i, also, don't care what people believe in, provided they don't try to force those beliefs on me, and therein lies the problem, because so many people of various faiths try to convert me to their way of thinking.
i realise this might seem a little hypocritical of me to be "preaching" this stance, but stop it.
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unlachs
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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yeh, belief systems do become problematic, especially when they exert influence over political policies
ie, abortion/marriage/euthenasia etc
but these issues are more moral than religious, although it's argued that morality and religion are inseparable, that god is the source of our morality, but if we debate this then the palgn forums will probably explode
Last edited by unlachs on Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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i think i'll just stay with the seventh day advent hoppists
faith, hop and charity.
anyone care to take a stab at what was before god, where did this being come from and what was it's motivation to create the universe?
anyone care to take a stab at what was before the big bang, where did the singularity come from, and what was it's motivation to explode?
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Sinthesys
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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You say it like there was an acting coach trying to help the quantum singularity explode in a convincing way.
'What's my motivation?'
'Ok, you're highly compressed... your dark energy is overcomming your gravity... aaaannd take us there'
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admeister
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: . |
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^ Exactly, things don't need any "motivation" to happen, if the right components are there, then they're going to react, simple as that.
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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and you make yourself sound as bad as the religious types, it just was and did okay, would that be showing faith in something you have never seen, like a god?
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unlachs
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Fetidchimp wrote: | i think i'll just stay with the seventh day advent hoppists
anyone care to take a stab at what was before the big bang, where did the singularity come from, and what was it's motivation to explode? |
hehe, i'm writing an essay on this exact topic right now
the quick answer is, that science cannot answer this question - it's beyond the limit of what science can explain, because all scientific models break down at the supposed singularity
maybe this will change in the future, but as of now, we simply cannot know
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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indeed, 10 to the negative 5 i think, is the farthest we can go back before physics as we know it just don't work.
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admeister
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: . |
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The difference here is that we understand how it most likely came about, there's evidence to prove how the universe was formed. We can trace things back to a singularity, despite the fact that we cannot explain the singularity. It's still a lot more solid than "God created the Earth one day, the end". The bible doesn't even acknowledge the creation of the universe, only the Earth. I guess God must have gotten bored after making the Earth and decided to make all these other planets and stars. 
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unlachs
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Fetidchimp wrote: | | indeed, 10 to the negative 5 i think, is the farthest we can go back before physics as we know it just don't work. |
10 to the negative forty-three seconds, actually 
i think that if we actually want to recreate the conditions at the time of the big bang we'd need to build a synchrotron that has a circumference larger than the orbit of pluto 
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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@ ads
matter cannot be destroyed or created, but apparently it was.
the creation of the universe ignores the first law of thermodynamics, so i'm thinking we have a looooong way to go before we can comprehend in scientific terms what actually happened.
i dont see much difference really between some deity clapping his hands, or some singularity exploding.
they both seem to give us the same amount of their time.......0
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Sinthesys
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm quite happy to concede that Fedid, the only difference is I don't adpot a moral code based on what someone inerpreted the singularity to have said to them thousands of years ago.
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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i'm not really on either side, it may have been a little from column a and a little from column b, or neither. I just don't think either side should discount the other so readily when they have a lot of parallels. But nor do i condone people knocking on my door trying to tell me about jehova 
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G3ck0
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Believe what you want to believe in. I don't mock anyone for believeing in something. The only think I think is ridiculous is when poeple punish themselves for their god, or do really bad things then go to church and ask for forgiveness. Like that guy in the Da Vinci code, Silas. People that do that crap are really screwed in the head, and that's when I think it goes to far.
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Benza
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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The diffrence is that with the big bang and the point of singularity etc.
Scientists admit that they arn't sure how it happend, if someone comes up with a theory that makes more sense the scientific community would be willing to accept it. No one is saying its a confirmed and definite truth, its just the best theory we have at the moment.
Religious people are saying that god is deffintly real and there is no room for doubt.
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ObsoletE
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: . |
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| admeister wrote: | | there's evidence to prove how the universe was formed. |
no.
there is evidence to assume how the universe was formed.
there's a difference.
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Toastfarmer
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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I've always pondered how much longer Christianity will last. It's obviously not going anywhere anytime soon, but a couple of hundred years down the track you would have to think it would be dwindling unless they begin to modernise. Anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-birth control, anti-stem cell research etc etc needs to change.
Let's say thirty years from now that everyone who is sixty or older right now is dead. That would have to wipe out a fairly significant portion of church-goers, priests etc. I'm not trying to be insensitive or anything, just considering the reality. Who is going to replace those people? Because it sure as hell isn't the majority of young people.
There are a lot of young Christians (ie World Youth Day goers etc I guess) but way, way, way more young people who aren't. And the ones who are I imagine will either grow out of it or come to their senses. Actually whenever I see those hardcore young religious people I always interpret it as an escape from the trials of puberty.  A head-in-the-sand sort of solution that Christianity uses for pretty much everything.
So I can see Christianity dwindling in years to come as it becomes less relevant to the modern world.
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arbok
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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^^ That is why they won't change - because religion is about belief - and being anti abortion would just contradict everything they have believed in for the last 2000 years. If they admit they are wrong then they would lose credibility for all the people that had been following them. Parents who are now 60 or whatever that did not believe in abortion based on Christianity previously and now forced to change their views, not so easy. Besides belief isn't about being right or wrong, its just an opinion or it should be. But yeah if it did happen - Would they have to update the bible? Yearly updates? Not mocking it - just thinking about what might happen.
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Sinthesys
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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What do you think the Protestant Reformation was about? In the 1500, Martin Luther voiced his concerns with what he saw as outdated and immoral practices of the church. The church can modernise, but why bother when everyone will blindly follow you like a flock of sheep no matter how illogical your beliefs are?
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Passa
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ObsoletE wrote: | | the problem arises because religious people (and some non-religious folk) are rarely that tolerant of other people's beliefs. |
Wow. What a sweeping, generalised statement. So all religious people are rarely tolerant of other people's beliefs.. of course.
On my own beliefs.. I've been brought up as a Catholic and attend a Catholic school, but honestly don't feel any connection to the religion. It all seems very dry and I get nothing out of it. My family all attend church every Sunday while I sleep in.. I just think we're the master of our own destiny. I know personally that in the past I only turned to prayer when me or someone I knew needed help, it was like instead of searching for a real solution I'd turn to prayer. Just like my school's rain contingency plan for when the World Youth Day Cross passed through was to pray for the rain to go away (I wish I was joking). Needless to say it poured all evening and night and the whole event was a disaster.
So.. yes. It's nice to have something to believe in but I think that's just a way to sidestep your problems rather than deal with them. I also think your religious beliefs are what you make them.. I don't see anything wrong with (in my case) taking bits of science and Catholicism. Hell, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the Catholic church doesn't take the Old Testament as fact (and I think a lot of you here are taking parts of the Bible literally when it's nothing more than symbolic.)
And for what it's worth, I'm completely willing to support stem cell research but not so willing to support abortion (it's a little more complicated than that).
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ObsoletE
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Passa wrote: | | ObsoletE wrote: | | the problem arises because religious people (and some non-religious folk) are rarely that tolerant of other people's beliefs. |
Wow. What a sweeping, generalised statement. So all religious people are rarely tolerant of other people's beliefs.. of course. |
in my experience: yes.
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lapzod
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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I feel horrible that you see it like that Obsolete.
Though personally, I must say that I see more people getting abuse for being religious than those for not having 'faith'
Last edited by lapzod on Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total
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