Games Everybody Else Loves But You Don't

[Coltaine]

There are a few MMOs drifting about. Pokemon World Online was one I played for a bit. There was another really kickass one which got shutdown by Nintendo IIRC. PWO created its own worlds etc to work around the copyright claims.

I've been lurking this site for a while now http://pokemon-universe.com

Has a dedicated base of developers and a large community even now. It does look really promising.
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[Jarrod]

I felt dirty talking about a game I liked so now I'm going to talk about a game I thought was overrated.

That game is Dead Space 2.

Dead Space was cool. Dead Space 2 was pretty cool. But I didn't enjoy it as much as the original. The devs made their Alien-to-Aliens analogy and just like the films I prefer the original idea over what the sequel did. Production values were higher and more effort had been put into presentation, but it was at the cost of tension, isolation and mystery.

The first issue was the heavy handed narrative. Extra story means more cutscenes, more characters, more talking, and more scripted crap. I loved the "take it as it comes" isolation of the first game and that was gone in the sequel as it tried to be more of a traditional action horror film.

The second issue was making Issac a generic lead protagonist, equipped with one liners and all. I liked Issac being the mute nobody of the first game. The lowly engineer with no real persona to speak of, a faceless vessel for the player to live out the game. Dead Space 2 spruced him up and though that meant better production values, it lost of a lot of the love I had for him in the original game. I'm a sucker for mute protagonists.

The last screw up was the heavier focus on action. I get they were trying to do the Aliens thing, but it decreased a lot of the intensity I enjoyed about the first game, a game I didn't think was scary to begin with. Encounter to encounter, Dead Space 2 played more like an action game than a horror game. I also felt this change in direction further exposed a flaw prominent throughout both games; encounters themselves are pretty drab and very repetitive, as the enemy variety is weak and the game almost always falls back on the same ideas. I don't agree with people call Dead Space a proper sequel to Resident Evil 4, because neither game really comes close to latter's inventive and highly varied encounters and enemy design. Both Dead Space games have a lot of copy/paste level level and encounter design, and having more frequent encounters in Dead Space 2 exposed this flaw to a greater degree.

I still think its a good fun game and very well made, but I don't think its the be-all-end-all game some people make it out to be. There's a tremendous amount of room for the entire series to improve. And, most of all, the changes made in Dead Space 2 hurt a lot of the charm I liked about the original game. The more personal, mysterious and claustrophobic atmosphere of Dead Space was much more enjoyable and memorable for me than the action heavy over scripted cinema of Dead Space 2. Like so many games, it spent too much time trying to be an action movie with a big narrative than trying to be an interesting game.
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[Benza]

Ok I've been trying to resist writing about Bioshock, cause well... I've ranted a lot on Bioshock.

But man... fuck Bioshock

I think the worst thing about it is that it was so close to being a good game, maybe even great.

A lot of things I complained about in half life 2 Bioshock does but does a lot better, the mute protagonist works brilliantly in Bioshock, it fits into the story and the world, and never feels forced. Likewise the limited action cutscenes, there is always a logical reason why you can't do anything in them (Although it starts to feel a little forced that once again you're watching through a screen with a locked door) but not only that but it serves to highlight the twist when you actually are put into an uncontrollable cutscene, it works amazingly well.

But then it just goes and ruins the fuck out of all the good work it did by using these ideas in an absolute shit house game. Pretty much every decision they made on the gameplay side of things is completely wrong. And this is highlighted by two things.
The Vita Chambers, The Flaming Shotgun.

The Vita chambers take what is at the start an increddibly atmospheric and tense environment and just... fucking ruins it. Ok the big daddys are scary, untill you realise there is no punishment for death and you can lure one to a vita chamber then just wack it death with a wrench while you continually respawn. There's a segment in the game where you have to hold off waves after waves of splicers while you wait for a timer to count down for 30 mins.

I got so bored during it I left it on, went off and made a sandwidch and got a drink, came back and decided to do the rest of it with my wrench cause... why the fuck not nothing is going to stop me in this game.

The second point is that flaming shot gun. This gun proceeds to make every other thing in the game pointless. Up untill you get it (And it's not that far into the game) a fight with the big daddys that you're not trying to abuse the Vita chambers involves planning and setting up kill rooms full of hacked turrets and trip wires etc.

After you get it, a fight with a big daddy involves three rounds of flaming shot gun blasts to the face and they're dead. All this vaunted choice and freedom suddenly becomes irrelevant. Why spend 15 minutes setting up a kill room to kill them when you can just shoot them? All the bees and whirlwind traps and trip wires and everything suddenly become useless. It defeats the entire purpose of the game with one weapon.

And that's not even touching on the cluster fuck of the last third of the game.
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[theory]

[Cyph]

Man, you guys are crapping on half the games you loved. I remember back in the day on these very forums I said Bioshock was overrated and got dragged over hot coals!

[Jarrod]

BioShock is exceedingly overrated and it becomes most apparent when you attempt to replay it. I still enjoyed my time with it, but it's one of those games that made a splash (pun intended) due to it's production values, and because it catered to an audience that hadn't played System Shock.

The gunplay is really terrible. Hit detection and feedback is all over the place, and weapons sound like pea shooters. It's probably some of the worst 'shooting' I've ever dragged myself through on an UE based game. The vita chambers thing too was really, really stupid. And the game fell apart in the last third. Every time anybody talks to me about how awesome the game is, they never, ever talk about the last third. Why? Because it was shit.

That being said the game had awesome art and atmosphere in droves. The game world was exceptionally well realised, very convincing and brilliantly structured. I thorouhlly enjoyed my first playthrough despite it being a poor man's System Shock, but attempts at replaying it really opened up the problems. Of all the 'big' games this generation that had very positive critical reception, I'd say BioShock has arguably aged the worst. Outside of the art and atmosphere it's a very dated playing game.

EDIT: And I'll add that what Benza said and my own thoughts above are why I'm not really interested in BioShock: Infinite. It's especially telling they've shown very little actual gameplay, just a ton of heavily scripted sequences, and all Levine and co seem to talk about is the world, story and character relationships. Like BioShock I expect amazing art and a brilliant gameworld wrapped around forgettable gameplay.
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[Benza]

I am almost certain you will not find any posts by me liking expressing anything but disappointment over Bioshock.
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[Banefire]

I find it interesting that after Jarrod mentioned Dead Space that Benza mentioned Bioshock. The reason is that when playing Dead Space (which i loved) i couldnt help but feel that it was taking heaps of ideas from System Shock 2 and making it a 3rd person shooter.

Oh and Benza, you mentioned the Vita chambers making the game easy and breaking the atmosphere. Well in Bioshock Infinite there is a 1999 mode (system shock 2 inspired) where using the "vita chambers" is very costly and the general difficulty is ramped up alot! Ammo is scarcer, enemies are stronger and saving the game often is a must. Also skills cannot be swapped. You cant go to a gene terminal and change your selection, once you decide something its locked in just like System Shock 2. So that announcement got me excited because i agree with you that coming back with half health is no challenge, but having to pay for reviving adds tension back to the mix.

And i agree completely with you Jarrod, i think that Dead Space 2 though an ok game was nothing compared to the 1st one. Isaac was too OP'd, the architecture was boxy and repetitive, and the story was balls. I especially liked when he came out of the vent into the room and mystically had a syringe in his hand which was going for his eyeball, (i was wondering ... where the heck did that come from???)

And the dead girlfriend? I didnt find her glowing scream scary at all, i just wanted to mute that character because its attempt to frighten me "the same way everytime" was an insult to every gamers intelligence. At least the 1st game mixed up those types of scenes so that they were not guilty of reusing scares that got old after the second time.

There were just no scares in the game at all....oh and another thing! If you left an item on the ground, it dissapeared if you left the room!!!! In the 1st game you could drop things you didnt have room in your backpack on the floor somewhere, then go back to the store - dump some stuff and go back for them. Not in the second game! and that just peed me off so much!

Anyway, rant over

[Nietzsche]

The main problem for me with the 2nd Dead Space is, the first wowed me while the 2nd was just more of the first.

[Pagan's Mind]

I couldn't get into Bioshock either. I got up to the first fight with a Big Daddy and put the game down there. The atmosphere and world is excellent but the gameplay was just shocking.

[Fetidchimp]

turn the vita chambers off
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kill, kill, kill.....the white man. Kill the white man, kill

[Esposch]

Someone just reminded me about KR. (inb4 Shiggy .gif)

Genuinely the worst game I have ever played. It had no redeeming features whatsoever and I had buyers' remorse over not just the $2.50 I spent on the game, but the two hours I sunk into it.

I cannot possibly see how someone could like such a game.
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[the doag]

Assassins creed brotherhood. Why is part 2 of assassins creed 3 seperate games, 1 reason $$ bills. AC1 and AC2, BRILLIANT, the others feel like cash grabs and expansion pack rip offs, the fact that they are charging full price is a joke. But the issue is if you want to know the story of the Animus e.t.c. you have to play through it all.
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[grim-one]

[Big Pete]

ROUND 3

GO

Donkey Kong 64

Okay, I know the Nintendo 64 was lacking quality content and in comparison to Tonic Trouble, Quest 64 & 40 Winks this game stands out as the grand puhba of adventure/platforming but looking back this game is so incredibly half-arsed and base.

Where to begin? How about the gameplay. Donkey Kong 64...honestly doesn't feel like a Donkey Kong game. Okay, I know there isn't a standard of measure when it comes to Donkey Kong but most people identify Donkey Kong with the Country series on the SNES.

From 2 onwards, Country had found it's own rhythmn and had gone away from the archaic arcade design of the original. What the series became known for was it's varied and creative gameplay elements, secrets & amazing music.

Compare that to DK64 where the gameplay feels like a cheap Banjo Kazooie knock off (without the personality), secrets aren't really secret and the music is really just standard 3D platforming music without any real theme.

But wait! DK64 was a HUGE game back in the day. That's true, but that's also apart of the problem for me. The game tries to sell you on just how big the worlds are - how you need warp pads to get by and that there are so many things to do in each world.

That all sounds good on paper but when you get down to the nitty gritty it really isn't. Bananas don't feel like the golden prize as they should as they're obtained as simply as simply ground-pounding a specific switch, completing a relatively simple mini game or defeating one specific enemy. Keep in mind that it's virtually impossible to die in the game as you have 12 hit points and health is readily available and the game lacks that necessary challenge that makes you feel like you've accomplished something. Essentially, it's like beating your 5 year old cousin in a race - kind of pathetic really.

But it's a family game! Made 10+ years ago, surely you're being unfair? Look, if Banjo Kazooie, Mario 64 & Mystical Ninja can still hold some relative challenge or at least retain some quality than surely a title of this calibre can too.

I'm probably just talking to myself so I'll only address two more points here. Firstly the new characters. Completely unnecessary additions to the series who were either cheap knock offs of other characters (Tiny = Dixie, Chunky = Baby) or just completely annoying (Lanky...). I don't think the game required THAT many playable characters AND should have focussed on other areas.

Areas such as world design. Again, it's just completely devoid of creativity. This is what we have folks - Jungle, Desert, Industrial, Water, Forest, Cave & Haunted all basic platforming world tropes and with the exception of the Forest which at least attempts to do something different with the day/night feature is all essentially base.

Ultimately, I don't HATE this game but I certainly don't like it and I'm not sure what's worse. Something that just flat out sucks, or something that turns out disappointing. At least with the former, your expectations are met or potentially exceeded, when it comes to the latter...it's just always going to be a negative response.

In the end, DK64 just shows that a game doesn't have to be BIG to be GOOD. What it truly needs is some creativity, possibly some innovation and even some personality. I have so many memories of BK despite it's simplicity yet only have a few of DK64, I believe that says it all.

NEXT TIME

Let the Rare bullying continue as I set my sights on one of their more original titles. The bug-slaying, ewok saving adored Jet Force Gemini.
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[Gamesta]

I agree with your thoughts on DK64.


Onto Bioshock: I thought it was a good game had a lot of fun with it but I do agree that it's overrated.
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Welcome to the internet. Where any joke can turn into WWIII.

[admeister]

Man, I loved Bioshock. Is it a little overrated? Yes. Is it still a great game regardless? Also yes, imo. Bioshock came at a time when I felt as though I was done with shooters for good, I was so sick and tired of the same old crap. Bioshock really caught my attention, and didn't let it go until the credits were rolling. I didn't care about hit detection, feedback, weapon sounds, etc. I was actually having a great time exploring the world and trying to survive, and I loved it. And yes, Vita Chambers can be turned off.
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"The first person to prove that cow's milk is drinkable was very, very thirsty." - Fact Sphere.

[Benza]

[admeister]

Oh, that's it. Mention that, and there will be consequences, Benza.
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"The first person to prove that cow's milk is drinkable was very, very thirsty." - Fact Sphere.

[IISpacebreakII]

I don't think vita-chambers should be there at all, even if you can turn them off, you'll always have that option to fall back on if you do get stuck. In-fact I would class it as a cheat.

Having said that, I loved the game. I didn't exactly play it for it's gameplay, I liked the narrative and environment up until about halfway through the game. I suppose if I do have a problem, it's how the whole game hinges on an underlying tone of survival, yet the vita-chambers completely destroy that sense of trying to survive.

Still loved it though, always wanted to play number 2.

[Ka-Pom]

Every Elder Scroll title post-Daggerfall (talking main series here, not adventures or legends).

Since Daggerfall we have seen skills, combat and lore completely slaughtered to make the games more accessible to the masses. I will say Morrowind isn't quite as bad as Oblivion and Skyrim in this regard, and it definitely had a certain charm, but I still fucking hated it.

Oblivion butchered the skill system, stream lined the combat to be essentially a hack 'n slash with skills having very little effect (in comparison to previous titles, at least). And when Skyrim took even more skills away and completely transformed the leveling system only one thing crossed my mind; The Elder Scrolls is officially dead.

Compare Daggerfall to Skyrim. They are complete opposites. One is a huge, fascinating world, with thrilling and immersive factions and an even better main quest. Deep, memorable NPC's. Character building was a delicate balance. Every skill counted and had to be chosen carefully, you could actually create a character that wouldn't work at all. And most of all, you could roleplay, the game offered you so many alternatives to the main route and gave the player a chance to make choices that truly suited the character they had made. The other is a shallow, oversimplified mess that took away all the charm of the previous titles to make money, and lots of it.

Bethesda, to me, are the biggest sellouts in gaming history.

[GooberMan]

[Jarrod]

I mostly agree with Ka-Pom, but the general streamlining doesn't other me so much as the streamlining that makes certain features redundant, and make you wonder why they're making that kind of game at all.

As I posted in the Skyrim thread, the two major ones for me are the world levelling, specifically in how it shapes loot to your level, and the compass. The former makes no sense to me, as it is far too easy to acquire power loot very early on in the game. Building tiers of armour/weapon types is only relevant when you're actually making the player use them, or having them serve some kind of purpose. They don't, because of how quickly you can get Elven+ stuff. There's several tiers of weapons/armour made completely redundant in the first few hours.

The compass is the most baffling one though. Maybe I've totally missed the point of these games, but a 3D open world exploration game I would have though, at the very least, would emphasise exploring. You know, the encouraging of adventuring and discovery. The compass renders these two points obsolete by telling you where everything is and what it is. I don't mind towns being placed on the map. I don't mind locations showing up when you get close. But in Oblivion and Skyrim there's no mystery or wonder to the world. Your compass is filled with little icons telling you where everything is; to the left a mine, to the right a tomb, and up ahead a tiny fishing village. It even gives a vague indicator of how far away these things are by the icon's transparency.

Weird stuff like these make me feel like Bethesda's ultimate goal with this game is to give the player absolutely no freedom at all, and the entire point is not to discover, not to adventure, and not to quest, but it go through a checklist and tick the boxes every time you do something. Wandering out of a town is less about imagining what might be in that thick forest, and the rush of excitement when you spot something usual in the distance, treck closer and find an ancient tomb you never knew was there, and then plunder it for mysterious treasures. It's about looking at your compass and seeing what locations you need to check off the world map. Fill list A, fill list B, fill list C, fill list D, seventy hours later we've got ourselves a game. Woop.
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[Puddingfork]

Mass Effect.

Tried the first, found the characters and the story too boring to make it worth playing though it's boring gameplay. Never tried to play ME2 or 3 because it seems like a series I would want to either play all or nothing of.

I feel alone and strange in my opinion, and saying this sometimes upsets people, but I say bring on the negs, neggers, fuck yo spoons.
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Unofficial PALGN Ventrilo Server 203.14.173.58:5704

[Jarrod]

A lot of people don't like Mass Effect. A lot of people love it, but loath Mass Effect 2. A lot of people loath Mass Effect, but love Mass Effect 2.

I assume Mass Effect 3 will break both parties.
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