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BigBoss
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 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Jarrod wrote: | | Ocarina is excellent but as time goes by it's popularity will wane as the old grow older and the rose tinted goggles of nostalgia don't effect the new generation who didn't grow up with the game. |
So how awesome is pong right? :P
So in summary SS is no OoT but its no ocean king temple. Everyone appreciate?
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ZNMS
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Let's see. A lot of people dislike this The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. I can see why and Benza have already mentioned enough examples that I shouldn't have to repeat.
I'm just glad no one bags out the older installments of the Zelda series from the Nintendo and Super Nintendo era. Those installments had a big open world to explore, lots of items to collect, dungeons and no annoying side-kick that just had to tell me something during every minute of the game.
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plazma
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Having not grown up with OoT, I find SS better than OoT.
People are different.
Having read this through it makes me sad. Sad that my favourite game of 2011 isn't being enjoyed as much as it could.
I wish people could just enjoy creative works for what they are designed to do. 
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Benza
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| plazma wrote: |
Having read this through it makes me sad. Sad that my favourite game of 2011 isn't being enjoyed as much as it could.
I wish people could just enjoy creative works for what they are designed to do. |
See this shit is what pisses me off. Ok you like it and I don't. That's one thing, but this pervasive attitude that the people that don't enjoy the game are somehow playing it wrong or something? Like there's this great game underneath it all and we just can't see it for some reason?
What the fuck is with that? It's this attitude that, instead of admitting a game has it's faults and isn't perfect but you enjoy it anyway. Wich is perfectly fine, I love the Assassins Creed games but they're far from perfect. But the overall attitude to people that dislike Skyward Sword seems to be "Well you're just not playing it right"
It's fucking infuriating.
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Fyuusii
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | plazma wrote: |
Having read this through it makes me sad. Sad that my favourite game of 2011 isn't being enjoyed as much as it could.
I wish people could just enjoy creative works for what they are designed to do. |
See this **** is what pisses me off. Ok you like it and I don't. That's one thing, but this pervasive attitude that the people that don't enjoy the game are somehow playing it wrong or something? Like there's this great game underneath it all and we just can't see it for some reason? |
Except that the original assertion here was a subjective review finding in favour of the games charms and glistening facets, not your personal objections to it's design.
You're going against the grain by default when you're contesting the original alignment of the article. Why should you be surprised that people are prepared to defend that alignment? Furthermore, why sully your entire opinion by introducing assumptions and hyperbole into the mix?
You're taking offense to the reviewer's point of view, which is no more or less valid than your own. You're just going to have to accept that not everyone cares to see through your eyes.
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Last edited by Fyuusii on Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:51 am, edited 2 times in total
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| ZNMS wrote: | Let's see. A lot of people dislike this The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. I can see why and Benza have already mentioned enough examples that I shouldn't have to repeat.
I'm just glad no one bags out the older installments of the Zelda series from the Nintendo and Super Nintendo era. Those installments had a big open world to explore, lots of items to collect, dungeons and no annoying side-kick that just had to tell me something during every minute of the game. |
If you really think about it, NES Zelda has more in common with Demon's Souls than it does modern Zelda.
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jesuslol
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| Jarrod wrote: | | If you really think about it, NES Zelda has more in common with Demon's Souls than it does modern Zelda |
See, in my opinion there isn't that much of a difference between the 2d and 3d Zeldas. I think that the transition to OoT was fantastic. It was one of the best transitions from 2d to 3d. The only major difference since then is that there is more hand holding (which also means it is more linear).
I also think that Demon's Souls doesn't have much in common with Zelda except that you fight things and there are boss fights.
Also look at this thread. Nintendo can't win. You have people complaining that it isn't enough like the old Zeldas and you also have people complaining about how they don't innovate and cling to the old Zeldas.
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Esposch
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Fyuusii wrote: | | Because the M classification has always been a stalwart bastion of access control in this country, amirite? |
Tell that to my 8 year-old cousin. He's just got a Wii and he's not allowed to get Xenoblades, Zelda, Okami and Metroid Prime, among others.
I honestly don't know why half of them got an M rating (actually, Metroid's understandable, but the others...). Stuff like Majora's Mask and FFVII were PG when I was a kid, and those games had some pretty hardcore shit in them.
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Fyuusii
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Esposch wrote: | | Fyuusii wrote: | | Because the M classification has always been a stalwart bastion of access control in this country, amirite? |
Tell that to my 8 year-old cousin. He's just got a Wii and he's not allowed to get Xenoblades, Zelda, Okami and Metroid Prime, among others. |
So his parents are actually paying attention to ratings? My heart bleeds.
A single, isolated case doesn't change the fact that just about the only thing stopping anyone from buying an M-rated game in this country is if they're inept enough to trip over on the way to the counter and crack their skull open.
The core rule here is that the rating isn't always indicative of who the content is aimed at. You seem to at least understand that.
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LeonJ
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Everybody is different I think is something we should take away here. Me, I'm not interested in Demon Souls or Skyrim at all. Not really my thing, I know those games wouldn't click with me. Anything Nintendo makes almost always clicks with me, always has and always will. I get their design and games. I think a lot of people do.
Skyward Sword was the only game last year which I could not put down and felt no pain to do EVERYTHING in the game. That's very rare for me. They nailed almost all of the motion controls and it is hard to imagine the game without it, some room for improvement there, sure.
I don't see Zelda games are not children games either. That's a complete cop out. They are geared towards everybody instead of insane hardcore types. Games can be just *fun* you know.
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Esposch
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Fyuusii wrote: | So his parents are actually paying attention to ratings? My heart bleeds.
A single, isolated case doesn't change the fact that just about the only thing stopping anyone from buying an M-rated game in this country is if they're inept enough to trip over on the way to the counter and crack their skull open.
The core rule here is that the rating isn't always indicative of who the content is aimed at. You seem to at least understand that. |
I'm fairly sure that most parents that don't play games look at ratings. I wasn't allowed M rated games (or films) when I was his age.
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Fyuusii
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Esposch wrote: | | Fyuusii wrote: | So his parents are actually paying attention to ratings? My heart bleeds.
A single, isolated case doesn't change the fact that just about the only thing stopping anyone from buying an M-rated game in this country is if they're inept enough to trip over on the way to the counter and crack their skull open.
The core rule here is that the rating isn't always indicative of who the content is aimed at. You seem to at least understand that. |
I'm fairly sure that most parents that don't play games look at ratings. I wasn't allowed M rated games (or films) when I was his age. |
You're really missing the point here. Not sure if trolling or...
There's a reason why during the recent R18+ debate that SA suggested canning M in favour of bringing in R18+. It's the same logic that I'm applying here.
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drinniol
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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That was canning MA15+, not M.
And I don't know how on earth the OFLC came to that decision - the baddies go 'poof' in a puff of smoke. No more violent than the Wii sports resort sword game.
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Esposch
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Fyuusii wrote: | | You're really missing the point here. Not sure if trolling or.... |
I'm not trolling, and I don't know what you're on about either.
Are you suggesting that an 8 year-old kid would go to the shops on his own, plonk down $80 for a video game, and then spend 50 or 60 hours playing his new game in plain view in the living room without his parents noticing?
Because I can tell you that I never tried that.
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Benza
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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[EDIT]
Wait, FUCK
I got Fyuushi mixed up with Furianshi.
So sorry man!
My bad, again, really sorry.
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Fyuusii
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Esposch wrote: | | Fyuusii wrote: | | You're really missing the point here. Not sure if trolling or.... |
I'm not trolling, and I don't know what you're on about either.
Are you suggesting that an 8 year-old kid would go to the shops on his own, plonk down $80 for a video game, and then spend 50 or 60 hours playing his new game in plain view in the living room without his parents noticing? |
M-rated content is not legally restricted in Australia (which then begs the question of why we even have this rating, but that is another matter).
So yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
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Esposch
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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^We have this rating to give parents information, so that they can make informed choices about what games they buy their kids.
Legally enforcing it would be silly because the content is not suitable for people only aged 'x and up' (the age isn't strictly defined, and it would vary from game to game if it were) and there is no ID handed out that proves you're 12/13 years old. Plus it would cost money and time, and solve no problems as most 8 year-olds don't go to the shops on their own and spend 80 of their own dollars without their mothers noticing.
Anything that would really fuck with a kid's mind is rated MA.
I think the real issue is the inconsistency of the OFLC, with games like Zelda and Okami receiving M ratings, while Fragile Dreams and Star Ocean 4 are PG.
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Pagan's Mind
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Fyuusii wrote: | | M-rated content is not legally restricted in Australia (which then begs the question of why we even have this rating, but that is another matter). |
MA15+ and R18+ shouldn't be restricted either. Classification should only be a guideline. It should be the responsibility of the parents to restrict what their children view and not the government.
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plazma
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | plazma wrote: |
Having read this through it makes me sad. Sad that my favourite game of 2011 isn't being enjoyed as much as it could.
I wish people could just enjoy creative works for what they are designed to do. |
See this **** is what pisses me off. Ok you like it and I don't. That's one thing, but this pervasive attitude that the people that don't enjoy the game are somehow playing it wrong or something? Like there's this great game underneath it all and we just can't see it for some reason?
What the **** is with that? It's this attitude that, instead of admitting a game has it's faults and isn't perfect but you enjoy it anyway. Wich is perfectly fine, I love the Assassins Creed games but they're far from perfect. But the overall attitude to people that dislike Skyward Sword seems to be "Well you're just not playing it right"
It's **** infuriating. |
Uhh. Umm. Thats not what I was intending at all? Maybe it was the smiley, but I was merely expressing honest sadness that some people didnt enjoy the game, as I know it is possible to be enjoyed.
And no, its not that people 'play it wrong'. And no, its not underneath anything, I think it is a great game.
I wasn't telling you to like it, I wasn't telling you it was prefect, I didn't say it was faultless, I said it was my favourite game of 2011. That is all.
I feel though that this was some sort of attack on my enjoyment of the game, which I hope is not the case. Is it wrong to enjoy this game?
I'm sorry if it came off as some sort of strange persuasive maneuver or something of the sort.
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Fyuusii
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Esposch wrote: | ^We have this rating to give parents information, so that they can make informed choices about what games they buy their kids.
Legally enforcing it would be silly because the content is not suitable for people only aged 'x and up' (the age isn't strictly defined, and it would vary from game to game if it were) and there is no ID handed out that proves you're 12/13 years old. |
Which is exactly why it serves almost no functional purpose without the legal recourse to back it up.
Which is exactly the reason why the M-rating is next-to-useless.
Which is exactly the reason why I used this point against Benza's suggestion that Skyward Sword's M-rating meant anything at all in terms of restricting access to the game.
Trying to carry this viewpoint on the basis of "the good nature of people" is laughable. As much as you or I might emulate good parenting, the vast majority will not; furthermore, a large sect of the audience are not moderated at all. This should not be news to you.
Kids get spoilt these days, I had to work for mah consolez. 
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Esposch
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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It's got nothing to do with good nature. It's all about parents' "urges" to protect their kid from anything that could possibly hurt them. Even terrible parents do that. Obviously not all, but some.
And thinking about it, the ratings probably do more for the parents than the kids. I'm sure mothers nationwide could rest at ease knowing that their child is only playing G and PG rated games.
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Fyuusii
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Esposch wrote: | | And thinking about it, the ratings probably do more for the parents than the kids. I'm sure mothers nationwide could rest at ease knowing that their child is only playing G and PG rated games. |
Mothers and fathers nationwide could rest a lot easier if they actually took an interest in what the bloody hell their kids were doing, not playing traffic lights with colour-coded labels.
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Benza
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I feel though that this was some sort of attack on my enjoyment of the game, which I hope is not the case. Is it wrong to enjoy this game?
p |
No man enjoy the game all you want, just don't go around saying stuff like people should enjoy things for what they're designed to do, it comes off as condecending. I didn't like what it was designed.
| Quote: | | Trying to carry this viewpoint on the basis of "the good nature of people" is laughable. As much as you or I might emulate good parenting, the vast majority will not; furthermore, a large sect of the audience are not moderated at all. This should not be news to you. |
Citation needed, you are making a lot of blatant assumptions with no real proof to back yourself up. The ratings system are aboud information not enforcement. So parents can decide what's good for their kids and what isn't. I mean you can tell parents to take an interest in what their kids are doing all you want but without a rating system that's kind of pointless. How are parents supposed to decide what is suitable for their kids if no one tells them that? What do you expect parents to sit down and play a 40 hour game before their kids do to make sure hteir's nothing objectable in it?
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Esposch
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Fyuusii wrote: | | Mothers and fathers nationwide could rest a lot easier if they actually took an interest in what the bloody hell their kids were doing, not playing traffic lights with colour-coded labels. |
I've never heard of a PG game containing incredibly objectionable content.
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Fyuusii
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Esposch wrote: | | Fyuusii wrote: | | Mothers and fathers nationwide could rest a lot easier if they actually took an interest in what the bloody hell their kids were doing, not playing traffic lights with colour-coded labels. |
I've never heard of a PG game containing incredibly objectionable content. |
Ahem.
| Benza wrote: | | Citation needed, you are making a lot of blatant assumptions with no real proof to back yourself up. |
I fail to see how one assumptions is a "lot".
However, I'm not the only one guilty here.
| Esposch wrote: | | I'm fairly sure that most parents that don't play games look at ratings. |
So while you have a point, you're only really reinforcing a stalemate of opinion. With that said, one of the most contentious points of debate with the R18+ storm was that MA15+ content was too accesssible. There seemed to be a large feeling within the political and media worlds that the rating wasn't accurately classifying the content.
If this is the case, and I believe it so, why would the other ratings classes suddenly be "better" in terms of definition? One of my biggest gripes is the use of the term "Moderate Themes" on some of the labels, which has got to be the most god-awful ambiguous load of crap that I've ever seen.
| Benza wrote: | | What do you expect parents to sit down and play a 40 hour game before their kids do to make sure hteir's nothing objectable in it? |
If you like to waver wildly to extreme possibilities, be my guest.
People aren't that stupid. A little focus and forethought and you can make a more accurate judgment than trusting a bunch of suits in an office to make a influential decision for you.
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