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Karai Pantsu
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 Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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It's less about freedom of playstyle, and more about the ability to make meaningful choices that actually change the outcome of the game. Something that was pretty exciting and new back then. Still one of the better examples of that, AFAIK.
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Benza
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Karai Pantsu wrote: | | and more about the ability to make meaningful choices that actually change the outcome of the game. |
Regardless of how meaningfull your choices are the game plays like absolute arse. I couldn't even get through the first level cause, just everything about the game feels sloppy.
And I mean I get that it's more an RPG then a shooter but regardless of how good the ideas of the game were it's not a good game.
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Karai Pantsu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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I played through a good chunk of it again relatively recently (within a couple years of today) and didn't find it that bad, but I also played it back in teh day so was already accustomed to it.
Regardless, I was just pointing out that the significantly cool thing about it was the impact you had on the narrative, not the different styles of play it allowed (IMO that is).
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GooberMan
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:34 am Post subject: |
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I think my faviourte thing is that he keeps calling the demons russians.
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Frozencry
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: |
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That video was pretty amazing.
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:50 am Post subject: |
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also for anyone that didn't know already, there is a new chapter added to doom 2 on xbla...which reminds me i have to play it
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mikezilla2
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | Quote: |
why do you suppose everyone else raves about it ? |
Well I'm always told it's amazing with it's freedom of choice etc Letting you choose how to approach the game and do it anyway you want.
In practice that basically comes down to "If you're not using the **** stealth mechanics you're playing the game wrong" Wich doesn't really equate to freedom of choice to me. The gun play is lousy, the graphics are hilariously bad, (I was shocked to find out it came out in 2000 after playing it cause I'd assumed it had come out in like 1994) the stealth design is inexact and tediuous.
It's a game with good ideas and crappy execution. |
i see so in other words you have no idea ? ie you haven't experienced it
the gun play by the way is more or less nerfed untill you get upgrades  kinda like the current DUs ex title - you played it ? one of the biggest pitfalls of the the first game was that being what it is the gunplay -played like many console games before it at the time there was just no other way to achieve what they did in sense it was half open world as well i mean you had a rather large area you could just run about in when your not on a mission
part of me thinks you decided to start shooting everyone after ten mins and said yep - gunplays ass  and yea the game looks like ass due to the size i mean GTA 3 looked like ass - as well ? still it didnt help that the character models were shit. was srue i read somewere that you had low standards 
dos anyone recall just what FPS the base shooting model in DUS ex was based off ?
forgot everyone seems to rave on about system shock 2 and how much like DUS ex it is but from just about everything iv seen its way more dated and looks older - very clunky 
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GooberMan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Fetidchimp wrote: | | there is a new chapter added to doom 2 on xbla |
I downloaded Doom 2 when it was released on XBLA not sure if I'd buy it. Then I saw the extra episode. Put down the 800 points there and then. It's only another 9 levels but they're very enjoyable. Really wish it was another 32, but oh well, that's a full Doom 1 episode.
And if you know what you're doing, it's a complete pushover to pull the data from your Xbox, reverse engineer their new file format, and play the new levels as a PWAD on any modern Doom sourceport of your choice (and possibly even Vanilla Doom, I don't think they removed any limits on the Xbox version).
Output from a program I whipped up to extract all the data for me. The way they got the new episode to work with the code base is... kinda hacky actually.
And those stupid new medikit graphics, screenshot taken in ZDoom while looking down.
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | i see so in other words you have no idea ? ie you haven't experienced it |
experienced what? I played it, I didn't like it, I quit. I'm not a fan of struggling through a shitty game to reach some fabled promised land of great gaming that's hidden somewhere in side.
| Quote: | | one of the biggest pitfalls of the the first game was that being what it is the gunplay -played like many console games before it at the time |
Goldeneye had been out for 4 years by the time Dues Ex got released. Perfect Dark came out a month before it. The gunplay in those games was great and they were being released as a console experience compared to Deus Ex's PC exclusivitiy (At the time)
| Quote: | | part of me thinks you decided to start shooting everyone after ten mins and said yep - gunplays ass |
Actually I tried stealth first. It was tedious, you get given a stun dart gun that doesn't actually work (After sneaking up on a dude competly stealthed and stun gunning him, his first reaction was to set off an alarm and shoot me) After I figured the stealth was stupid I decided to try and pick people off with a sniper rifle which... yeah that sucked. Then I decided to go guns blazing which again wasn't any good. It's based off the unreal engine. The first unreal (Propper unreal not tournament) was one of my fave FPS games of the era so it's hard to think they fucked it up that much.
| Quote: | | and yea the game looks like ass due to the size i mean GTA 3 looked like ass - as well |
Actually GTA 3 looks miles better then Deus Ex, and that was running on the PS2.
I don't know where you heard I have low standards? I quit The Witcher cause it's animation was shit. I took a lot to convince me to play oblivion cause it's such a fucking ugly game?
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: |
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@goober
i used to maketh my own levels with doom cad, was always disappointed that arch viles couldn't resurrect each other, that was going to be a terrifying level.
yeah whats with the bloody medkits, i noticed that also, bloody silly.
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mikezilla2
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | Quote: | | i see so in other words you have no idea ? ie you haven't experienced it |
experienced what? I played it, I didn't like it, I quit. I'm not a fan of struggling through a **** game to reach some fabled promised land of great gaming that's hidden somewhere in side.
| Quote: | | one of the biggest pitfalls of the the first game was that being what it is the gunplay -played like many console games before it at the time |
Goldeneye had been out for 4 years by the time Dues Ex got released. Perfect Dark came out a month before it. The gunplay in those games was great and they were being released as a console experience compared to Deus Ex's PC exclusivitiy (At the time)
| Quote: | | part of me thinks you decided to start shooting everyone after ten mins and said yep - gunplays ass |
Actually I tried stealth first. It was tedious, you get given a stun dart gun that doesn't actually work (After sneaking up on a dude competly stealthed and stun gunning him, his first reaction was to set off an alarm and shoot me) After I figured the stealth was stupid I decided to try and pick people off with a sniper rifle which... yeah that sucked. Then I decided to go guns blazing which again wasn't any good. It's based off the unreal engine. The first unreal (Propper unreal not tournament) was one of my fave FPS games of the era so it's hard to think they **** it up that much.
| Quote: | | and yea the game looks like ass due to the size i mean GTA 3 looked like ass - as well |
Actually GTA 3 looks miles better then Deus Ex, and that was running on the PS2.
I don't know where you heard I have low standards? I quit The Witcher cause it's animation was ****. I took a lot to convince me to play oblivion cause it's such a **** ugly game? |
put simply there is some grinding needed the standerd non futuristic guns are rather crap but its all they give you , at some point you become overpowerd ether way -
if i recall didnt dus ex run in to development hell at one point ?
having played the first red faction game recently i figure it plays a lil worse then that
- just so you no the new dus ex feels rather small by comparison
you said yourself you have low standards it went somthing like " i have low standerds " more or less a qoute tho iv not botherd looking for the post
and yea what won you over with oblivion ? im having a hard time with that as the art direction kinda sucks as well - something dus ex had mind you
it just seems odd that everyone is creaming there pants over marrowind , and dagger fall but theres no love for dus ex much like - there sequel counters parts were nerfed for a casual audience ?
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GooberMan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Fetidchimp wrote: | | i used to maketh my own levels with doom cad |
Cripes. That's going way back. Although I never used it myself. DEU was my poison, and later DETH/ZETH. If you're going to make a map these days, Doom Builder is the way to go. He started writing it around the time I started writing an editor, but he actually stuck with it. Mine was also more experimental in nature, Doom Builder's quite a solid straight forward editor.
| Fetidchimp wrote: | | was always disappointed that arch viles couldn't resurrect each other, that was going to be a terrifying level. |
Bwahaha. I bet a quick DeHackEd patch would have fixed that.
| Fetidchimp wrote: | | yeah whats with the bloody medkits, i noticed that also, bloody silly. |
The Red Cross is a trademarked symbol. Why they decided to change it 17 years later is beyond me, but it was after the Zenimax buyout so they probably had a whinge.
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:25 am Post subject: |
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yeah doom cad was a bitch, but it was ok after you got the hang of it....think i ended up with about 20 levels.
Gave up after a while and started doing heretic levels instead...
wish i still had them lying around
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:29 am Post subject: |
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It's not so much that the guns felt underpowered, the actual gunplay feels sloppy, the aiming the hit detection all that stuff. I can't enunciate this shit as well as Denny but it just didn't feel good.
I'd say the low standards comment was probably in regards to movies I will watch some shitty movies but I want my games to look good
As for oblivion, I ended up getting convinced when I decided to fuck t he entire point of the game and made a fluro red lizzard who's mission in life was to punch everything to death. After I punched my first horse to death I was sold.
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GooberMan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
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@chimpy: Yeah, all my early levels got baleeted by my dad when he decided the Doom directory was taking up too much room on the hard drive. He left behind one level which I was making for him, but deleted all the additional WADs I was storing graphics in so that I didn't have to recompile one mega WAD each time I made a change in the level. GG.
Protip: If you make a solid Heretic level set, you'll be a Doom community hero for a few weeks. Heretic maps are quite the rarity these days. Hexen even more so - mainly because ZDoom incorporates all of Hexen's functionality so there's no need to use Hexen for scripting.
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mikezilla2
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: |
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what i mean is that it wouldnt be problem once you get overpowerd so to speak i mean theres one aug that gives you large tenticles that rips peeps to shreds
still oblivion , dus ex guess its anyones playground
the actual gunplay feels sloppy, the aiming the hit detection all that stuff.
but dosnt everything from that time or before feel like that now ?
would like to hear danny wigh in on this later
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:56 am Post subject: |
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but dosnt everything from that time or before feel like that now ? |
Not really, Quake 3 the game that Denny has been pimping like a cheap ho to everyone he can find came out the year before Deus Ex. It still feels great to play today.
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Nietzsche
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Duex Ex achieved different things than quake. Trying to compare and RPG with a shooter is impossible. It would be like comparing Fallout 3 and Call of Duty. They are different games.
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ZNMS
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| sobriquet835 wrote: | | My opinion, if Quake was done today, it would have graphics and sound like RAGE, but it would also have the freedom of movement that makes it a Quake game. I think we could get behind that. |
Quake has been released today and it is called Quake Arena Arcade or QuakeLIVE. Both look the same, one doesn't cost a thing and is not making any profit. While, the other cost money and little to no one is playing it online.
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