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Exodus
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 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:52 am Post subject: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. |
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Bethesda have gone all out it seems on their fifth title in the TES series. I am a big fan of TES IV: Oblivion and Fallout 3. I spent countless hours within each of their massive and dynamic game worlds. Customisation was definitely and has been a strong point of all their games, as was the in-game lore, which I am a sucker for.
Has anyone else seen the recent E3 live gameplay presentations plastered all over YouTube? Or was I the only one late to the party? Todd Howard goes into specifics about the gameplay, the TES universe, the Dragons and so forth, and the video demonstrates much of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic6dKnv3WdU
Shaping up to be a great RPG. Been far too long since Oblivion! What is everyone else's views and feelings on the title?
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Waka
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Well I'm excited!...
!!!
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TamTam79
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:59 am Post subject: |
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For whats left this year, this is now my most anticipated title remaining. And we have A LOT left in the bag too.
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THEMAN
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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One of the highlights for a dismal e3 year
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still burned by Oblivion, but this is looking muuuch better. It seems like Bethesda has found a comfortable balance between Morrowind/Obivion, with a lot less hand holding and streamlining. The new additions sound cool too.
Its funny, but one of the things I anticipate most out of the Elder Scrolls series since Morrowind is all the mods. There's such a huge, dedicated fanbase behind the franchise that you end up with a game even better than what arrived.
Morrowind in particular has seens such tremendous advancements thanks to mods.
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TamTam79
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Burned by Oblivion? What was your issue with that title, may I ask?
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Cyph
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't mind the addon for it, but the main game was too drab (damn generic dungeons killed it for me)
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Frozencry
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TamTam79 wrote: | | Burned by Oblivion? What was your issue with that title, may I ask? |
I'm in the same boat with Jarrod, so I'll explain my thoughts as well:
I found it repetitive, unimaginative and well, boring. Morrowind had charm and character in its world and an enormous amount of variety, while Oblivion felt very samey everywhere I went and felt very unpolished at that. The forests were nice until I saw the rest of the world, which mostly comprised of forests too. Oblivion itself was pretty mundane as well.
I mean don't get me wrong, there is a lot of things I DID like with Oblivion; the Dark Brotherhood questline was superb, and some of the caves I did find were really cool, but overall it was not even close to Morrowind's polish, scale and lore and I felt very detached in Oblivion in most areas. It just felt too disjointed and messy to be absorbing for me, and its repetitive environments and lack of variety was a real killer.
Skyrim however looks really, really good. It feels like Morrowind but with a lot of the advancements of Oblivion, and it looks like Bethesda are taking their time to really refine this game. I'm looking forward to it quite a bit, a close second to Dark Souls.
And like Jarrod, I can't wait to see what the mod community does. Morrowind had amazing mods.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| TamTam79 wrote: | | Burned by Oblivion? What was your issue with that title, may I ask? |
Without going into too much of a rant (because I could, and that is dangerous territory), I wasn't happy with the changes Bethesda made over Morrowind. They wanted to create a more accessible and streamlined experience that catered to a wider market, and so they did. It's mostly a combination of the little things. I felt the game lacked the variety and scope of Morrowind.
I suppose the most basic example of this change in direction would be the way guilds were handelled. Morrowind had a ton of guilds and factions to join, each with their own misisons and contacts. Some were so well hidden you might never find them. There were three seperate Vampire factions, for example. Sometimes you'd find by joining one faction, you couldn't join another, due to conflicting interests and quests. You also couldn't join and rise up through factions unless you fit the faction's style. If you weren't casting spells you were never going to rise to the top of the mages guild.
Oblivion streamlined this by offering less factions, each with higher production values, and dissolving all hurdles that may prevent you from progressing in one or the other. It didn't matter how you chose to play, you could always rise to the top of evey faction all at once, no conflicts. This is great for more relaxed play, but for my personal taste role playing is defined by two core factors; choice and consiquence. Oblivion had some of the former, none of the latter. The world was stale, as if you didn't exist.
Plus I feel that Oblivion's levelling system for monsters, loot, weapons and all that was one of the worst decisions ever made for a franchise of that status. The idea is okay, but Bethesda ballsed up the execution. There was nothing satisfying about running into high level thieves wearing ebony armor just because you happen to be a high level too.
Oblivion is one of those games that I can see the charm too, and see why many loved it, but Bethesda really did totally overhaul many of the mechanics and concepts they had founded with previous Elder Scrolls game. Its the only Elder Scrolls game I was actively bored with, never properly finished (though saw it finished), and in one swift move killed any interest I had in future titles. Thankfully Skyrim looks like it might be back on track to the kind of game I'm interested in.
Okay, that turned into a rant. Sorry.
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Appel
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Dare I say, I never played Morrowind, but love the hell out of Oblivion.
Hopefully Skyrim will play like a mixture of new and old.
Like a best of.
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kartanym
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm the opposite to everyone here, it seems. I did play Morrowind and didn't mind it, but it didn't set my gamer heart on fire. Never touched Oblivion at all. But from what I've seen of Skyrim so far, I'm really impressed. It's a living, breathing world, the dragons are stunning, it has the potential to really outshine everything else out there.
Of course, it could just be the fact that Mass Effect 3 has been pushed back, and I'm looking for something to fill the void 
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Capoeira
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm extremely hesitant to jump on the hype train with this. I remember all the pre-release buzz that Oblivion had with all the wild promises Bethesda made. I still remember that Radiant A.I preview a few E3's back, with the woman and her dog. That was essentially a pure fabrication. A bare-faced lie. They sold us on that knowing full well that nothing of it's sort would be in the game. Disgraceful.
I'm not falling for that again. Bethesda have a long way to go before I fall for their hyperbole a second time.
EDIT: The Bull**** Demo. Still pisses me off.
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kartanym
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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It'll be different this time considering how close we are to the games launch. Everything on show at E3 should be in the final game, and in truth, we've only seen a very small snippet of what the game can do.
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mrpookles
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, never played Morrowind, but Oblivion basically single-handedly got me back into gaming after I'd broken free from it for a few years (undecided whether that's a good thing or not).
I'm actually hesitant to play it again, as I'm almost certain that it has aged like shit.
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Benza
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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My main problem with Oblivion is that game was ugly as fucking sin
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Cyph
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | My main problem with Oblivion is that game was ugly as **** sin |
I honestly don't know what you're going on about Benza
Oh... wait a sec...
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Quin
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Sadly, Oblivion was one of the games that helped me realize how much I disliked Western RPGs as a whole. I don't think Skyrim will change that.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quin wrote: | | Sadly, Oblivion was one of the games that helped me realize how much I disliked Western RPGs as a whole. I don't think Skyrim will change that. |
Oblivion is a dreadful example of the kind of quality in WRPGs
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Exodus
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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The AI was ugly on Oblivion but that superficial layer didn't really hurt the overall gameplay quality or underlying technical aspects. I mean, it was one of the first entries on the 360 so understandably it was choppy on the graphical side and aged faster than most titles. The A.I. behaviour though was impressive for its time, and I know Todd made some promises but they still ended up smarter than most games. Save for the Imperial Guards... I hated when their A.I. magically knew where you were hiding or that you committed a crime. I know for a fact the PC modding community has kept the graphical and underlying tech of Oblivion alive, making it look better and the A.I. smarter all these years. Shame I don't have a good enough computer.
The openness of Oblivion and Morrowind are still the prime highlights. I don't think Oblivion was as casualised or streamlined as many people here have expressed. The lore, setting, characters and gameplay choices were extremely diverse and detailed. Sure, there were less guilds or less easter eggs, but I think that choice had more to do with Bethesda treading new ground rather than "casualising" the series. But maybe these views of mine have to do with me liking the latter much more, so I am probably bias... that and I was younger when Morrowind came out.
And what's wrong with Western RPGs? Oblivion, Mass Effect, Fallout 1, 2 and 3, Deus Ex and KOTOR all set the bar for roleplaying greatness of this generation. Customisation, deeper story-telling, the non-linear advancement, open-world... Admittedly they have their short-comings and cliche's, but what game doesn't? In fact, what RPGs doesn't? I love JRPGs too but damn are they getting staler and cheesier in the modern day. Look at FF13... still a great game, but why did it take so long for the world to open up? The Tales series is one grand exception... I love Vesperia.
I guess the WRPG's will find a similar fate once their respective series reaches the 13th title.
The customisation of Oblivion was also a great factor. Skyrim looks to approve upon that immensely, among other things. The combat looks more fluid too, with the executions spicing things up, keeping it interactive and interesting. I don't like to hype games though, so here's to hoping we get a great game on the 11/11/11.
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Last edited by Exodus on Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Exodus wrote: | | And what's wrong with Western RPGs? |
Its a debate for another time, but my personal reasoning is that modern WRPGs, at least from the major companies, have by large abanonded the design elements of older WRPG games I consider most important. BioWare can call Mass Effect an RPG all they like, but I dont consider it much of one.
For what its worth, I dont really like JRPGs either.
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Exodus
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Jarrod wrote: | | Exodus wrote: | | And what's wrong with Western RPGs? |
Its a debate for another time, but my personal reasoning is that modern WRPGs, at least from the major companies, have by large abanonded the design elements of older WRPG games I consider most important. BioWare can call Mass Effect an RPG all they like, but I dont consider it much of one.
For what its worth, I dont really like JRPGs either. |
Haha true true. I listed ME there because I personally loved the storytelling and production values, but out of what I listed it's probably the least favorable. BioWare definitely casualised DA: 2 and ME:2. So don't pick on Bethesda and Oblivion, pick on them! 
I hate that they "streamlined" the levelling up and such in ME:2. Held it back to being a great game. Same as DA:2... the original Dragon Age was surprisingly old-school and complex when I first played it two years ago. I haven't played DA:2 much yet but from what I have it makes me sad they've abandoned the basic template as you pointed out. KOTOR and Jade Empire were such great games...
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TamTam79
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ya know? I never really thought Jade Empire was nearly as good as the media surrounding it.
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Cyph
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm actually the opposite, I thought Jade Empire was far better than how it was received. Sure, was more or less a KotOR clone set in an feudal asian land, but you, it worked fine.
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Nietzsche
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm always ready to defend my favorite genre.
I am a Bioware fanboy. I have loved every Bioware game since Kotor (well besides DA2).
Oblivion was such a wonderful game based on two things. It's lore and exploration. It's funny the things that actually make it an RPG are just awful in Oblivion. Combat is pretty bad, stats to a large extant are meaningless but the actual world was so wonderful. Every dungeon has this circular nature which got rid of a lot of back tracking, the world felt pretty unscripted, at the time the graphics were amazing (funny how Morrowind actually looks better now) and the side quests were fantastic. Also the problems with loot and stats don't become super noticeable until hours (I estimate at least 20 hours until you notice just how custard that system is) into the game. The way you played this game also changed a lot on how you were approaching it. For instance stealth and bow actually played like a stealth game. My favorite types of games are just ones that you can totally immerse yourself in and Oblivion is a standout.
Jade Empire is flawed but a gem. Also it was received really well so unless you think it's the greatest game ever it wasn't overlooked.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Exodus wrote: | | Haha true true. I listed ME there because I personally loved the storytelling and production values, but out of what I listed it's probably the least favorable. BioWare definitely casualised DA: 2 and ME:2. So don't pick on Bethesda and Oblivion, pick on them! |
The streamlining you describe is what I dont like about Oblivion as well though. I can see why people enjoyed it more, but for my personal taste I enjoyed the deeper complexities and variety of Morrowind. Oblivion was too streamlined for my liking, regardless of its pros.
Ultimately what it boils down to is just personal taste. I have a checklist of values I deem most important for me in digital role playing games. For games like Oblivion or Mass Effect, it's less about them being good/bad, and more about how much I enjoy them relative to the experience I get. Mass Effect I've never seen as an RPG, or at most a very light RPG, and so I play it more for the action and story. Oblivion is based on a franchise I've followed for a long time, so the streamlining of mechanics I loved burnt more.
Fallout 3 is another example. Great game by its own merits, crappy role playing game for what I look for in an RPG. Obsidian, with New Vegas, more than cemented my opinion that Bethesda dont make the style of RPG I like anymore.
TLDR: LONG LIVE TROIKA!
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