| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Karai Pantsu
PALGN Moderator
Status: Offline
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 10109
$poons: 29.06
Location: Melbexico
|
 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 |
|
I really don't think that argument holds water - escape your sex-slave bonds by... uhh... doing sexy dances? 
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Benza
Status: Offline
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 14586
$poons: 119.20
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Quote: | | But it's also based around sexual empowerment |
See I think it wants to be, but Snyder completly misses the mark and ends up failing misserably.
The more I think about it though the burlesque house element is probbably my second biggest pet peeve with the movie (after sweet pea's sword) It really serves zero purpose in the movie, and only makes things make no sense when you think about it.
I think the movie would have worked far better staying in the mental home with the cuts to elaborate fight sequences rather then going to the burlesque house first. I mean firstly it would have made the juextaposition that much more powerfull since instead of going from attractive slutty hookers to action heroes dressed like hookers they would have been going from run down crazy hobo's to action heroes dressed like hookers. Wich would probbably sell itself as there idealised versions of themselves far better. (If you're allready a sluttyly dressed hooker do you think your idealised version of yourself is going to be dressed like a whore or dressed like a damm action hero?) Then there's the whole issue with blue going from so low in the heirachy to the top. The scenes with him controlling the dance teacher/psychatrist make no sense in context considering she out ranks him by a shit load.
Add to that when you think about it, they seem to be in a mental home for people that are dangerous. Maybe getting Sweetpea out at the end wasn't such a good thing? I mean those girls are all in there for what I'm guessing is a reason, the whole 'we ran away from home' story doesn't fly when you realise they're instatutionlised. It would have been a great angle to put on the story, a 'should these people actually be running free?' thing. But because of the burlesque house it's completly ignored.
God damm it I liked this movie when I walked out, but the more I think about the more I'm really growing to dislike it....
... hey we agree on something Ads, it is like Scott Pilgrim 
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ShortRaver
Status: Offline
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 643
$poons: 185.60
Location: Melbourne
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fetidchimp
Status: Offline
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 8666
$poons: 60.20
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
Ah well ads, raters gonna rate
_________________
kill, kill, kill.....the white man. Kill the white man, kill
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ShortRaver
Status: Offline
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 643
$poons: 185.60
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
It's been pretty interesting so far to see the divide across the board.
I wonder if Snyder's name had not been attached to this film, if the reception would have been better? I know for sure, that whilst this film was great (in my mind), it does not hold a chance against his prior films.
_________________
Playing: Fallout: New Vegas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spacecow
Status: Offline
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 1194
$poons: 11.20
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
Saw it today. Agree with the disjointedness of it all, that first scene transistion (from the institution to the brothel) had me confused for a bit. Overall though I quite enjoyed it. Soundtrack was absolutely ace too, so much so I bought it before I watched the movie...
| Benza wrote: |
Add to that when you think about it, they seem to be in a mental home for people that are dangerous. Maybe getting Sweetpea out at the end wasn't such a good thing? I mean those girls are all in there for what I'm guessing is a reason, the whole 'we ran away from home' story doesn't fly when you realise they're instatutionlised. It would have been a great angle to put on the story, a 'should these people actually be running free?' thing. But because of the burlesque house it's completly ignored.
|
Sweet Pea only went to the mental institution after her sister though. She herself had no mental problems and actually got along well with her mother and father. I thought it was both fitting and unfair that she was the one to get out though. On one hand she was the only one who didn't actually belong there (ie:was sane) but on the other she was the one who was against the escape in the first place while the others were all for it.
_________________
"Everything's coming up Milhouse"
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Benza
Status: Offline
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 14586
$poons: 119.20
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Quote: | | Sweet Pea only went to the mental institution after her sister though. She herself had no mental problems and actually got along well with her mother and father. |
No that was her reason for being at the burleque house. You don't end up in a mental instution because you ran away from home or because you want to be with your sister. You end up in one because you're mentally unwell (Or because someone wants you to be in there and says you're mentally unwell) if she got on with her parents and ran away from home she wouldn't have ended up in a mental instution she either would have ended up in a real burlesque house. Or in a work house or something. Not a mental institution.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spacecow
Status: Offline
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 1194
$poons: 11.20
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Benza wrote: | | Quote: | | Sweet Pea only went to the mental institution after her sister though. She herself had no mental problems and actually got along well with her mother and father. |
No that was her reason for being at the burleque house. You don't end up in a mental instution because you ran away from home or because you want to be with your sister. You end up in one because you're mentally unwell (Or because someone wants you to be in there and says you're mentally unwell) if she got on with her parents and ran away from home she wouldn't have ended up in a mental instution she either would have ended up in a real burlesque house. Or in a work house or something. Not a mental institution. |
You sure? I specifically remember it being said in the mental institution that she came after Rocket and that she got on with her parents. There were no mention of parents in the burlesque scenes. I assume she was then captured at/near the mental institution (where Rocket was and where she was going) and admitted in. I think it was in the scene where they were all on the beds after Babydoll's first perfromance.
Or I could be wrong...
_________________
"Everything's coming up Milhouse"
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Benza
Status: Offline
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 14586
$poons: 119.20
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
I'm sure it was in the burlesque house. Cause why the fuck would you be in a mental instution from runnign away from home. That makes no sense what so ever.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spacecow
Status: Offline
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 1194
$poons: 11.20
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Benza wrote: | | I'm sure it was in the burlesque house. Cause why the **** would you be in a mental instution from runnign away from home. That makes no sense what so ever. |
Because she came after her sister who was in the mental institution? Considering it's quite a 'shady' institution too I wouldn't have been surprised if they just admitted Sweet Pea in instead of dealing with her appropriately (I assume she somehow made her way in or close to the institution).
_________________
"Everything's coming up Milhouse"
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theory
PALGN Moderator
Status: Offline
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 9112
$poons: 1275.00
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
@admeister: The review is superbly entertaining and very very well written. I have no idea about the film. I haven't seen it. I was just talking about the writing, which was beautiful. I rarely (hardly ever) read a review that long. That held my attention the whole way through. I wish that one day all my writing will be that awesome.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Benza
Status: Offline
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 14586
$poons: 119.20
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Spacecow wrote: |
Because she came after her sister who was in the mental institution? |
So? It doesn't make a lick of sense.
You don't just get admited into a mental instution for showing up. That's not how it works. You get atmited into a mental instution for being mentally ill. It's not like a girl shows up going "I want to see my sister" so they're all like LOL WE'RE LOCKING YOU UP!
Esspecialy if you take the situation of her having a good relationship with her parents.
Her parents would know were Rocket was, why would they sit by and let there good daughter rot away in a mental insution when they know she's not insane?
You've also got to take into account, even if the story being told was what sweet pea beleives. She's in a mental institution. She's not the most reliable witness. If someone in a mental instution tells you she's actually the long lost daughter of Napoleon Bonapart and will escape and conquere England, that doesn't make it true.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mousepinkle
Status: Offline
Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 12
$poons: 3.40
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| admeister wrote: | | So, anyone seen it yet? Thoughts? |
I went along with my boyfriends request to see the movie... after watching the preview, I thought ... here's another "boys" film, BUT I really enjoyed it. Sure some of the story was a little disjointed, but the transfer from comic to real life action was brilliant. The sets and costumes were amazing eyecandy and the action was a perfect mash of CG and anime style poses.
I have recommended the film to others, but purely for mind numbing entertainment...
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Benza
Status: Offline
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 14586
$poons: 119.20
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Mousepinkle wrote: | | , but the transfer from comic to real life action was brilliant. |
comic to real life action?
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mousepinkle
Status: Offline
Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 12
$poons: 3.40
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
well.. comic style.. his other films were based on comics, and this one had the same feel.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dloiscute
Status: Offline
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 3953
$poons: 1627.40
Location: iSW
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
Saw it tonight. I want my money back.
_________________
☑Tekken
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
THEMAN
Status: Offline
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 3526
$poons: 719.80
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
watching @ imax tomorrow. Can't wait for the suckassness!
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam
Status: Offline
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 1965
$poons: 0.20
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
I don't have either strong love or strong hate for Sucker Punch, but I don't think it's a very good film. I can see the artistry that went into it, and I understand what Zack Synder is going for, but that doesn't mean he was successful.
I have further thoughts below, that contain some spoilers. Highlight to read.
I guess it's just weird seeing so much money funneled into a personal project, where Synder is essentially riffing on genre, parodying his own style, and seeing how far he transplant the same story from one fictional reality into another. It's all very self-reflexive, and it is thought out to some degree, but it's not something that should have had over $80 million spent on it.
There's just no tension when you try to do action sequences and a brothel story with themes of sexual assault in amongst a self-reflexive mediation on genre. And I say sexual assault because the lobotomy needle was very obviously just a small thin metal penis, much like my own, except the needle was there to take away Babydoll's virginity as it were. If he wanted to do his mental asylum/brothel film, that should have been entirely separate from the action sequences. Because you know what? Those action sequences are where the film stops dead.
Partly because the shifts between reality aren't introduced properly, but also partly because there aren't any consequences in these scenes, we lose all stake in the proceedings. As soon as that samurai slammed Babydoll into the floor in that first fantasy scene at like 100km/s and she made that massive crater and she just got back up like nothing happened, I lost interest. Hey, if the characters aren't going to be in any kind of real danger in these action scenes, why should I care? It doesn't matter how cool your computer can make robots on Titan look or dragons in a castle, as a regular Joe in the audience I'm not invested in what's going on because I know it's not real, I know nobody can get hurt. And when somebody does get hurt, there's only immediate consequences in another fantasy level and not 'reality'. So Babydoll dances, and then we get the mind-boggling action, and then it's over and the story continues. We may have just not had the action sequence at all, because it's the same god damn thing whether we have the sequence or we don't because it doesn't advance the story.
And I know the whole subjective reality thing is kind of the whole point of the movie, but this isn't some experimental arthouse film, it's an $80 million popcorn action production, and the audience needs to be invested in what's going on. The Matrix made it clear that death or injury in the fantasy world had consequences in the real. Inception went to great lengths to outline the rules that death in the fantasy world would lead to insanity. They do this so we care. Also having characters that were interesting and well-performed helped as well, and while I did like the opening sequence with Babydoll, the character just fell flat for me for the rest of the movie.
So basically I'm not invested in the characters, every so often the movie stops dead to play a music video, and somewhere I have the horrible thought in the back of my mind that Zack Snyder thinks he's Christopher Nolan.
Also I agree with Half in the Bag that while it purports to be about female empowerment, apparently according to Sucker Punch women can only be empowered if they're stabbing men with knives or swords while flaunting their sexuality with mini-skirts and leather. Rather than being empowered through intelligence, having useful skillsets or determination... Nope just stab some evil men because all they want to do is **** you.
With all that said, I can appreciate it on an analytical level, and for that reason I would probably give it 2 stars or so. It's a failed experiment, but at least Synder tried to do something new, I suppose.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ciel
Status: Offline
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1343
$poons: 514.40
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
Watched it... well technically watched it, I was there in body... but dunno if I was there in spirit. I will admit I slept through bits and pieces of it, which would probably give you an idea of what I thought of it.
I did like the fight scenes, and the story wasn't hard to follow it's not exactly rocket science. The direction style felt more suited to a music video than a movie, especially that opening sequence.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
admeister
Status: Offline
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 13915
$poons: 983.60
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Adam wrote: | | We may have just not had the action sequence at all, because it's the same god damn thing whether we have the sequence or we don't because it doesn't advance the story. |
It doesn't directly advance the story, but it sure does illustrate it well! If there's one thing that this movie focuses on, it's showing things, rather than telling. It's a very visual movie from start to finish, and to hell with taking the time to really flesh out the characters - there's a story to tell here. That's the approach that I reckon Zack took when making the movie, and I admire it. It takes a lot of the movie conventions that we're used to, and ignores them, preferring to do its own thing much of the time. Rather than large amounts of dialogue, Zack uses action to help tell the story. It's definitely not a movie for everyone, but it certainly captured my imagination quite effectively.  Switch the brothel setting for something a little more agreeable, and it's pretty much the movie I'd make if I had the chance.
_________________
"The first person to prove that cow's milk is drinkable was very, very thirsty." - Fact Sphere.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frozencry
Status: Offline
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 9277
$poons: 1628.10
Location: Sydney
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
I'm yet to see Suckerderp but I'm very interested in seeing it solely because I've heard it's utter trash. That and I could use it for a quickie in the cinema apparently.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Benza
Status: Offline
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 14586
$poons: 119.20
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Denny wrote: | | That and I could use it for a quickie in the cinema apparently. |
My girlfriend enjoyed the movie too much 
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adam
Status: Offline
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 1965
$poons: 0.20
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| admeister wrote: | | It doesn't directly advance the story, but it sure does illustrate it well! If there's one thing that this movie focuses on, it's showing things, rather than telling. It's a very visual movie from start to finish, and to hell with taking the time to really flesh out the characters - there's a story to tell here. That's the approach that I reckon Zack took when making the movie, and I admire it. It takes a lot of the movie conventions that we're used to, and ignores them, preferring to do its own thing much of the time. Rather than large amounts of dialogue, Zack uses action to help tell the story. |
There's no doubt in my mind that Snyder's strength is in visuals. The whole opening with the stepfather is really effective, and not a word is uttered. The problems of the film begin with the Samurai fantasy sequence.
When Snyder throws in steam-powered zombie Germans, and has Babydoll shoot a whole bunch of them with the help of a mech suit, there's no story going on here. OK, they steal a map I guess. What's the emotional significance? Nothing really. The problem is it's so far removed from the actual proceedings, it hardly holds any relevance. Nobody can get hurt. Why is this in a steam punk World War I again?
It's because Snyder thinks it's cool. He's besotted with surface and visuals, but the storytelling itself just gets left behind in the dust of the costumes and action. He's also trying to be a bit like a Chuck Jones with Duck Amuck. In that, Chuck warps and changes Daffy asking the question 'Is it still Daffy if I do this', and the answer is always yes because he's such a strong character. Snyder is doing the same thing with genre. "Is the story the same if there's zombie Germans? What if she's fighting dragons?" The answer is 'no, not really.' He's attempted to have these universal ciphers in the map, key, fire, etc, which should translate across any story, but because the characters aren't particularly well drawn, we don't care. The ultimate answer of the research is that you can place these characters in any story, but we won't care unless you still obey some traditional rules of narrative.
I don't have a problem with Snyder asking these questions and looking into these aspects of cinema, but that doesn't mean he's automatically successful. I commend him for trying, but if anything it makes a strong argument for traditional storytelling, against what he's doing.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Benza
Status: Offline
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 14586
$poons: 119.20
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Adam wrote: |
There's no doubt in my mind that Snyder's strength is in visuals. The whole opening with the stepfather is really effective, and not a word is uttered. The problems of the film begin with the Samurai fantasy sequence.
|
Honestly I really think the man needs to find a regular screen writer collaborator. Something like Spike Jonez/Andy Kauffman.
Basically someone to focus on telling a good story and worry about all the stuff that Snyder basically sucks at, and leaves him enough room to work his visual style which I fucking adore.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ShortRaver
Status: Offline
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 643
$poons: 185.60
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Benza wrote: | Honestly I really think the man needs to find a regular screen writer collaborator. Something like Spike Jonez/Andy Kauffman.
Basically someone to focus on telling a good story and worry about all the stuff that Snyder basically sucks at, and leaves him enough room to work his visual style which I **** adore. |
I think the Superman reboot ('Man of Steel') will be excellent example of a collaboration as you said Benza, as he will be directing a David Goyer written script.
That is unless of course, that this reboot falls down the same well as 'Superman Returns'. Fingers crossed though it doesn't, as I'll need my Superman fix once Smallville finishes this year.
_________________
Playing: Fallout: New Vegas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
