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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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I differentiate GH from RB largely by the far more realistic tone RB brings compared to the quite stylised GH (RB3 being the most obvious step in that direction against GH:WOR also being the quintessential stylistic GH game). This bleeds through other levels to create different effects on both sides.

Plus I find RB feels more bent toward having fun songs for the band to enjoy playing, even if often a bit on the easy side, against GH leaning toward being a grueling struggle for people to work up to mastering (and then posting on youtube). Song choice and tone is gradually becoming more and more similar as they grow but they seemed poles apart earlier on when GH was putting out classic rock and Willie Nelson (just for example) and RB had indie and Nine Inch Nails. (No, I'm in no way suggesting those artists belong to those genres as they clearly don't, they're just an example of each).

I stick with RB because I like the tone, songlist and emphasis vastly more than those of GH. Not saying that's the way to go, but it sure is for me. If you want an arcadey finger-blistering showdown go with GH, if you want band simulation go RB.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:10 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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You can use GH drums and guitars on all RB titles on 360. I have been since WorldTour & RB1.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:46 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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crescent fresh
I don't want to get into this ****, but that is just an awful, awful analogy...

How so? The reviewer didn't review the games to its full extent. Playing GT5 to its full extent requires a wheel, just as RB3 requires pro-mode instruments.

As myself and others have stated, you don't release a full review unless you have fully reviewed the game. Full stop.

There's nothing wrong with releasing a scoreless preview, before doing the final review once all modes are tested.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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^^ You can get just as much enjoyment out of GT5 without a wheel as you can with, depending on your preferred game style. You can test all elements of the game without the wheel and the wheels are not "required" at all by the game etc etc.. It's not like the Rock Band 3 thing at all..

A better analogy would be trying to play (and review) Wiifit without the WiiFit board thing... you could probably still do a bunch of the non-balance things without the board (if the game let you) but you wouldn't be able to test a majority of the game because it relies heavily on the need for the board.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:01 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Fetidchimp
devonuto wrote:
As myself and others have stated, you don't release a full review unless you have fully reviewed the game. Full stop.

There's nothing wrong with releasing a scoreless preview, before doing the final review once all modes are tested.


All of the peripherals required for that haven't been released yet, so... good luck with that. Given that the main body of the game is perfectly playable without any of the 'pro' kit, and also taking into consideration that most people buying and playing this title won't be forking out for the pro kit, I think demanding a 'full review' is a bit much. if anything, Pro Mode deserves it's own piece once all the kit is here to use.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:57 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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About reviews in general - ive noticed plenty of reviews these days on this site as well that write about features of the game for about 75% of the game and then how it actually plays for about 25%. Its just my opinion but id like it the other way around. I know the reviewers play the games theres no question about that - but its almost like they churn out the reviews if you know what i mean. I find that alot of the sports reviews read like this year in year out. I'm not saying find a new angle every year, im just saying tell me how you feel when you're playing it. Sometimes i'm better off reading comments or first impressions.

But back to the rock band review - yes i would have liked to know about the keytar and it was good that you stated you didnt review that part, but it would have been nice if you said that you might get back to it someday. Essentially the score is kinda worthless then since you're reviewing only half the game.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:28 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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light487 wrote:
A better analogy would be trying to play (and review) Wiifit without the WiiFit board thing... you could probably still do a bunch of the non-balance things without the board (if the game let you) but you wouldn't be able to test a majority of the game because it relies heavily on the need for the board.


Fair enough.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:34 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Mr. Blobby wrote:
Given that the main body of the game is perfectly playable without any of the 'pro' kit, and also taking into consideration that most people buying and playing this title won't be forking out for the pro kit, I think demanding a 'full review' is a bit much. if anything, Pro Mode deserves it's own piece once all the kit is here to use.


Please point out other reputible sources who only review partial. Whenever IGN cannot test the game to its entirity, they do not give a score.

If PALGN doesn't have the pull to get all the peripherals to review the game peroperly, hold off giving a definitive review until you have.

Quite a lot of websites will say something along the lines of "keep an eye out for our full review once the peripherals are released in <insert date here>". It is not unreasonable to expect a similar thing here.

In reality, if you're not going to go pro, there is little need to upgrade to RB3 at all. So leaving that out of the review - let alone multiplayer - is doing everyone a disservice.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:41 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, people sure feel entitled when it comes to free online reviews.

Don't like the review? Read another one, shit it would take 10 seconds to find another one on google.

Unclench dude, it's not a big deal.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:06 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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yeah i like what some guy coined on kotaku once....militant entitlement
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:06 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

devonuto wrote:
Please point out other reputible sources who only review partial. Whenever IGN cannot test the game to its entirity, they do not give a score.

If PALGN doesn't have the pull to get all the peripherals to review the game peroperly, hold off giving a definitive review until you have.


Having been around game journalism for seven years, I can tell you that it's everyone. I'm sorry to burst your idealistic bubble but this industry is rife with "partial" reviews. If you really think that IGN sit there and meticulously test every single aspect of a game, please give me whatever you're on or stay in your fantasyland. It's a much better place. I'm seriously sick to **** of reading reviews from 'reputable' places that SO OBVIOUSLY haven't finished the game, and they hide the fact through vague and checklist reviews. Want an example? Read their Castlevania: Lords of Shadow review. Any site that releases a review prior to the retail release will not have had a chance to properly test multiplayer, yet will still attach a score.

We recieved Rock Band, and we under obligation to give it coverage. Unfortunately, given our limited resources, we probably won't be able to cover the whole thing. Regardless of whether people agree or disagree with what we've done, I will throw down the challenge to readers. If you are unhappy with what we've done, why not do something about it? If you want to submit a 'full' review with the pro mode and all that jazz, I will happily publish it your name and give it the whole bells and whistles treatment. But no one will. Because it's the internet and it's much easier to complain then it is to proactively do something about icon_twisted.gif
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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Benza wrote:
Wow, people sure feel entitled when it comes to free online reviews.

Don't like the review? Read another one, **** it would take 10 seconds to find another one on google.

Unclench dude, it's not a big deal.


dude, im just adding constructive criticism. i think PALGN is one of the best gaming sites online, and im only trying to help. I think most people are. i haven't gotten snarky, or angry or pissed off or anything.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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JP2daMC
Jeremy wrote:
If you really think that IGN sit there and meticulously test every single aspect of a game, please give me whatever you're on or stay in your fantasyland.


I don't believe that I said they test every detail meticulously, but they definitely do at least play every component, even if only for 15 minutes.

Jeremy wrote:
If you want to submit a 'full' review with the pro mode and all that jazz, I will happily publish it your name and give it the whole bells and whistles treatment.


Challenging someone to do your job better than you (I realise that you didn't write the review) because you are "unable" doesn't seem to be a very professional way to run a gaming jounralism site.

arbok wrote:
i haven't gotten snarky, or angry or pissed off or anything.


It's a pity some of the writers on this site cannot say the same thing.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

devonuto wrote:
lay every component, even if only for 15 minutes.

Jeremy wrote:
If you want to submit a 'full' review with the pro mode and all that jazz, I will happily publish it your name and give it the whole bells and whistles treatment.


Challenging someone to do your job better than you (I realise that you didn't write the review) because you are "unable" doesn't seem to be a very professional way to run a gaming jounralism site.


PALGN = voluntary (but of course we need proof that you can actually write decently..). If a user wants to do a review that is more extensive, they can by all means submit it and it'll get looked into. It's happened before.

Now if that person who whines doesn't want to do it, I guess they could just give us the money to buy all the peripherals so we can test it then, right? Majority of our reviews come out of games we purchased from our own pockets, so as far as I see it, your sense of self-entitlement and crusade to belittle our editor by calling him unprofessional has fallen on deaf ears.

We're being as pro-active and 'professional' as we can be. The review clearly shows that it's not entirely definitive and we covered what we can. As blunt as this may sound, you just have to deal with that unless you want to give us paying jobs.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only person who notices that Jason puts his two cents in towards nearly every review here?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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crescent fresh
Would now be a good time to comment that the PixelJunk Monsters review had a similar problem?

http://palgn.com.au/playstation-3/10216/psn-pixeljunk-monsters-review/

It all starts off relatively simple, in any given level there are dozens of trees and ten waves of enemies.

From this sentence, and no further mention in the review, the reviewer didn't play (or was unable to get through) more than 25% of the game's content.

Good enough to get a nice solid 8, though. Great site for getting game prices, but I can't trust the reviews after reading that mess.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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1 review, from 2 years ago, by someone who hasn't even posted any material in over 1 year? And you want to judge the entire sites writing ability on that?

And besides,
Quote:
As you progress through the game more towers are unlocked and the enemies become even more complex. It quickly becomes second nature to build specific towers at the beginning of a level and upgrade your towers as you get enough gems.


I honestly don't know how Luke could have gone into any more material than that. Think about the game he was reviewing, its a small PSN title. You shouldn't expect a full length review on a game that is that small. But Luke was nice enough to try and instead put a bit more into the review about how the game actually plays.

You guys...seriously need to stop being so god damn picky.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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Care to explain what's wrong with it? Can't say that I've played the game in question, but understanding that it's a TD game and skimming over the linked review, it all seems about right?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't play a single game I reviewed. I dont even own a Wii.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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Karai Pantsu wrote:
Care to explain what's wrong with it? Can't say that I've played the game in question, but understanding that it's a TD game and skimming over the linked review, it all seems about right?

I think Daggoth is referring to the later levels when there are many more waves of enemies and often very few trees (I think one level has just 3 trees to use). That's a pretty pedantic view IMHO though. I think Luke's comment was validated by the "It all starts off..."

Why is everyone complaining about reviews so much? Read more than one, get a broad view, play the demo, you've got a lot of options here. The reviews here are excellent as a rule, well balanced, informative and the writers are open to acknowledging/fixing any mistakes brought up in the comments. I say well done reviewers!
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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1 review, from 2 years ago. Yeah, I have a good memory. Sorry for the derail. I have no problem with the score; 8 is about right. But if you've played the game, that review is a mess.

From the sentence I posted: there are around 21 levels in the game; the first 5 or 6 have 10 waves. The rest have 20. Either the reviewer can't count to 20, or they didn't play more than 25% of the game, and I'd argue that there's a serious problem with either of those faults, genre be damned.

No mention of having to replay levels over and over to acquire rainbows to unlock the harder stages. Do the stages randomise? Do the harder stages randomise? Wait, what are those again? How does this affect the replay value and yeah I'm nitpicking now, but it's a crap review, full stop.

Seriously, it's like the reviewer played it for 2 hours, said "yes this is neat, graphics are good, different towers ooo they do different things!", gave it the gaming journalism equivalent of a "B", and then submitted it for approval. If that passes, they could've just skipped the whole downloading-from-PSN thing and watched a couple of Youtube videos for reference instead.

I get a very similar vibe from this RB3 review. For the record, I have no interest in RB, not after the RB and RB2 Australian release debacle, so I couldn't care less what the final score is. But being unable to review the big new key features of the game - keys and pro instruments - makes the review seem quite pointless and incomplete. It would be like me trying to review the original RB without a drumkit or microphone. "Yes, this is very similar to GH, the colours are the same, different gem shapes, different flavoured soundtrack. I give this an 8.5679/10!"

I personally feel that if you're unable to review the content of a particular game, either because you lack the skills or interest required to play the game to completion (or very close to completion), or because you lack the physical hardware required (did someone mention running Crysis on a 486?), then by all means post impressions, but don't put a score at the bottom. Yes, you should absolutely read the review, but Metacritic and the average idiot certainly won't.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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. Yes, you should absolutely read the review, but Metacritic and the average idiot certainly won't.

I think working under the obligation that "You need to do this cause metacritic is stupid" is kind of a shitty way to go about it. PalGN are running there own website, why should they have to conform to what completely unrelated websites want to do?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:49 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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I just don't like games you can play, really.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:53 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Benza
^ So you're a big Metal Gear Solid fan then?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:16 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

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devonuto wrote:
How so? The reviewer didn't review the games to its full extent. Playing GT5 to its full extent requires a wheel, just as RB3 requires pro-mode instruments.


No. It doesn't.
All the wheel does is offer you a different control method. All the content of the the game is still available to you.
The intruments in RB3 are *required* to play pro mode, which is markedly different from normal mode and makes up a substantial portion of the new content the game has on offer.
GT5 would not need to be reviewed differently depending on the controler you chose to use. Some might argue that the wheel makes it a more complete experience, but that is down to a matter of preference (I for one enjoy racing games much more with a standard controller).
A wheel in GT5 is a control preference while the pro instruments are an required to fully experience the game.
That being said, I disagree with anyone who derides this review for being 'incomplete'. It does what it sets out to do, which is give a good evaluation of the game as the vast majority of people will play it, without the pro instruments.
Anyone who is interested enough in the extra instruments and exta content to pay the premium for them (as I was), will find no shortage of reviews in other places that give a more in depth evaluation of the game's new features and peripherals. However, the game stands well enough on its own without them.
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