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 Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Love the opening post. I don't get it either.
I have good friends who are into it and force me to sit through episodes of Naruto while they argue over whether Sasuke or Itachi is cooler. You know. And it takes half a season for the characters to run from one end of a tunnel to another. I'm talking about Jiraiya, with his two shoulder-heads. Woooooo.
Missing something.
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döppelgangbang
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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I am and always have been an animation aficionado. I suckled on the teat of 1980s fodder back when they used to play racist bugs bunny cartoons. My first exposure to Japanese animation was astroboy and I indulged in many schoolyard discussions over Mysterious Cities of Gold, G-Force, Ulysses 31 and Robotech. These were cartoons which took kids seriously, and for a gooD part had me peering from behind the couch in fear.
There was a sharp decline in offerings for kids during the 90's, and I was growing up. Children's animation dispensed with the slapstic and became about saving the planet. Thanks to WB's awesome studios for producing Tiny Toons, Animaniacs and the animated Batman series. And John K for inventing Ren and Stimpy - his parody of old skhool tex avery cartoons are still being unapologetically aped today. The middle ground ceased to exist: Kids cartoons became kiddy and adult animation (like Æon Flux) pushed on in its own direction. Japanese animation slipped from our screens, except perhaps for sailor moon which made me late for uni most days of the week.
Anime was exotic. Before it hit the mainstream it could only be found running on SBS late night and by going on missions to distant video stores. It was like nothing I had ever seen before! Violence and nudity, bizarre mysticism beyond anything in the west, and GIANT ROBOTS! It was a teenager's wet dream (plastic little, I'm looking at you) and the oh so angsty protagonists were relatable to this dateless adolescent.
Back in those days there was very little in the way of cliquism. Being the creative/intelligent (stroke) outcast that I was, I would have loved to have nerdy anime (girl)friends with dark makeup and cat ears. Alas those schoolyard discussions about animation had subsided and I was paid out for holding a candle for DuckTales. No one else knew what Akira was.
During the '00s I used to attend an anime screening at uni. Savvy internet hounds sourced fansubbed anime and we watched six per sitting in lecture hall 32c. Not all of it was gooD, but some of it was Cowboy Bebop. When the series finally trickled over to DVD I knew what to choose from a rapidly expanding selection.
Since then the niche has exploded. Anime is everywhere. Giant robots and anxty teens that turn into cute animals when emotionally compromised are the order of the day. I no longer attend anime club and have become extremely selective. IN MY DAY you used to have to join a new video store to see the unseen. Today the genre as bloated to meet market demand.... and you know what? Its no longer unique.
Reflecting back, I can see that much of what blew my mind as a teen was probably old hat. Evangelion sits on the shoulders of Giant Robot which is now stacked high with Rah Xephon and Full Metal Rhubarb or whatever.
And now when I see cosplayers on their way to an anime convention, my once emaculate anime knowledge is lacking. I don't know which series those particular cat ears are from. Maybe to them is seems new. Whatever pops your cherry I guess. So I still love anime but I can barely see the forest for the trees. I pick my favourite directors, writers, musicians and character designers to guide me., not whatever is new on the video store shelves.
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LeonJ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | LeonJ wrote: |
I'm talking about *proper* anime/manga. I've enjoyed these series quite a lot: |
Sorry but there's no such thing as propper. Cowboy Bebop is just as legitimate an anime as Pokemon.
Anime is a sub-medium of Animation. Not a genre.
Also am I the only one who couldn't stand Death note? In had a **** incredible second OP. That actually convinced me to watch the show. But dear god that show was a convoluted piece of crap. I got up to were L and Light started going to school together and just couldn't take anymore "If I do this, then he'll think this, or will he think that I'm doing this so that he thinks that, so maybe I should do this, but then will he know I'm doing this instead of doing that, so he will do this and.... " it just kept going... |
Nope. You are alone. Granted the 2nd half wasn't as strong as the first, Death Note was a landmark in manga/anime. It was clever and griping at the same time. A classic.
A fantastic anime/manga drama.
And proper?
HELLO. That's like saying Friends and L.A. Law are similar shows. Just because it's in anime *from* doesn't mean it's of the same class, genre or quality. I should have said 'adult' anime/manga instead of children.
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Last edited by LeonJ on Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:28 pm, edited 2 times in total
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JmiYeo
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | JmiYeo wrote: | Okay, "targetted audience" is not a genre. My point being, if you watch something that is not suitable to your taste, of course you aint gonna like it. No one forced you to watch it in the first place.
If you seems to find all anime "is the same old ****", maybe you should improve your finding skills and not simply criticise it on the ones you found. |
My point was that it isn't about target audiences or what suits my tastes. My tastes are diverse I just want to see something new.
Like I said I used to be hardcore into anime and eagar to snap up the next new thing asap. Hell I was like the third or fourth highest poster on the madman forums untill I got kicked off.
But after a while it all starts to blend together. The large majority of anime these days is made for the Otaku. That's why you look at a list of new anime
and see
12 moe-blob shows
6 beautiful effeminate men shows.
3 robot animes
4 shows for little kids
2 shows that look like they exist entirely for fan service.
Yeah sorry but I'm not exactly inundated with creative shows trying out new things. |
Those "New Anime" you posted, are the upcoming TV Series. If you are waiting for TV series that is like Tekkonkinkreet, MindGames, Dead Leaves etc, you are looking at the wrong place. The sort of anime you like, are mostly movie releases or maybe OVAs, as the type of audiences is more likely to watch a movie length anime, than a 12/24 episodes TV series.
(I'm not trying to be rude to you Benza, so please don't take it that way.)
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subbastard
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I really dug it in the late 80's/early 90's... Akira, Legend of the overfiend, Ninja Scroll, Wicked city etc. Can't really get into it any more though, and I have no idea why.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not really an anime fan nor do I know much of anything about it, but I have enjoyed series like Deathnote and Mushi-shi. They both had refreshingly different themes and stories from the typical western media I am used to.
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Benza
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| LeonJ wrote: |
HELLO. That's like saying Friends and L.A. Law are similar shows. Just because it's in anime *from* doesn't mean it's of the same class, genre or quality. I should have said 'adult' anime/manga instead of children. |
No, it's like saying Friends and L.A. Law are both TV shows made in America.
and sorry dude but you'd be just as wrong. Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Soul Eater etc isn't Adult anime. It's teen at best 
| Quote: | | . If you are waiting for TV series that is like Tekkonkinkreet, MindGames, Dead Leaves etc, you are looking at the wrong place. |
Something like Soul Taker, Gankutstuou, or Baccano would do (That said can't fucking wait for season 2 of Baccano)
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LeonJ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | LeonJ wrote: |
HELLO. That's like saying Friends and L.A. Law are similar shows. Just because it's in anime *from* doesn't mean it's of the same class, genre or quality. I should have said 'adult' anime/manga instead of children. |
No, it's like saying Friends and L.A. Law are both TV shows made in America.
and sorry dude but you'd be just as wrong. Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Soul Eater etc isn't Adult anime. It's teen at best
| Quote: | | . If you are waiting for TV series that is like Tekkonkinkreet, MindGames, Dead Leaves etc, you are looking at the wrong place. |
Something like Soul Taker, Gankutstuou, or Baccano would do (That said can't **** wait for season 2 of Baccano) |
Well, I'm 31 and get great enjoyment out of those teen shows.
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Benza
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| LeonJ wrote: |
Well, I'm 31 and get great enjoyment out of those teen shows. |
That's cool, I download the latest episode of scooby doo straight from the US as soon as it gets released each week so I'm not gunna judge
(Off topic: The new scooby doo show is fucking brilliant)
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Puddingfork
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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In this post I want to try explain why I think some (and most of the ones I have met) anime crazy obsessed people love it so much, which I think the OP was more curious about, than why I like it. I don't mean to offend anyone so sorry if I do, this is based off personal experience with people I know that a lot of the time I think have some deeper underlying problems.
I do quite enjoy Anime, basically for similar reasons to Benza and Doppel, I like watching shows do things new, something I don't think Western TV accomplishes as often but I think anime accomplishes far more simply due to how cheap it is to make and how much of it there is.
Oh, and generally I hate any show that is hundreds of episodes long.
I have friends that are anime crazy, one going so far as MOVING TO JAPAN FOR A YEAR almost entirely over her love her Anime and her supposed love for Japanese culture.
They're an incredibly annoying bunch of girls thanks to Anime (they're all girls) that make constant high pitch Japanese noises and just obsess way too much. Even going as far as saying all real life guys disappointed them because the ones in anime are far nicer and HOTTER.
Most of this group I knew fairly well up until about School ending where since I have lost contact with them. But I got to know them well enough to have a fairly good understanding of who they are. Now keep in mind I'm talking about some fans, not all, I don't want to offend anyone and I know there are plenty of awesome people that love anime, most actually on this forum, but this is specifically about a group of people I know irl.
Some things I've noticed about their personalities, they think they are special little snowflakes and try their hardest to prove to themselves and others that they are unique, special important people (incredibly insecure people). They also tend to be obsessed with the romance side of it, to the point where, it has completely distorted their expectations of real life romance and how guys should act. Also they tend to live in some dream land and actually think they were meant to be born Japanese and view Japan as some divine holy land that they will one day make it to and be happy forever, and are incredibly ungrateful of where they currently live.
Hope that helps, I wanted to give try give it from a different perspective to "I like it because" and instead more of a "they like it because" as, well you're not really going to get anyone come out and say "I am obsessed with my hobby because I'm insecure and depressed but it's not my fault because I shouldn't been born in Japan"
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JmiYeo
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Something like Soul Taker, Gankutstuou, or Baccano would do (That said can't **** wait for season 2 of Baccano) |
Some titles came up which I think might be of interests to you to check it out. (If you hadn't already watched them that is.)
One that came up right after you mentioned Bacano, is Durarara from the same production company and director. It might be slightly off what you like, but still worth a check. A slightly older title is Ergo Proxy which I think you might have watched it. Some newer ones are Shangri-La, Dogs (Stray Dogs Howling in the Dark) and Eve no Jikan (lighthearted)
I have to agree with you that alot of newer titles released, there aren't alot of them that is uniquely different. That said, it is also true that anything that unique, only appear infrequently and in lesser amount. Otherwise it won't be unique or different anymore.
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LeonJ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | LeonJ wrote: |
Well, I'm 31 and get great enjoyment out of those teen shows. |
That's cool, I download the latest episode of scooby doo straight from the US as soon as it gets released each week so I'm not gunna judge
(Off topic: The new scooby doo show is **** brilliant) |
.... but... there is no story with scooby doo. STORY, you need long term stories!
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Benza
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| JmiYeo wrote: | | Quote: |
Something like Soul Taker, Gankutstuou, or Baccano would do (That said can't **** wait for season 2 of Baccano) |
Some titles came up which I think might be of interests to you to check it out. (If you hadn't already watched them that is.)
One that came up right after you mentioned Bacano, is Durarara from the same production company and director. It might be slightly off what you like, but still worth a check. A slightly older title is Ergo Proxy which I think you might have watched it. Some newer ones are Shangri-La, Dogs (Stray Dogs Howling in the Dark) and Eve no Jikan (lighthearted)
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Durarara is allready on my "To watch" list (That list is so huge it's getting embarasing) Watched Ergo Proxy but havent ever heard of the two others you mentioned, will deffintley check them out though cheers.
| Quote: | | .... but... there is no story with scooby doo. STORY, you need long term stories! |
The first episode has Fred steal a corpse from the cops while screaming at shaggy "START THE CAR START THE CAR!" Also the show does actually have an over arching story going through it and continuity and charecter development.
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Ciel
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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aw god.. anime..
I don't think there's going to be a season 2 of Baccano.
aw god.. one piece.. naruto.. bleach.. it never ends.. NEVER!
well at least I'm working on Gundam: Char's Counter Attack for December's release.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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There were a lot of great western animations back in the 80's, with a good continuous storyline. These types of shows pretty much died out in the 90's, replacing it with something more aimed towards an ADHD audience.
Anime had many good ideas of the 80's, which I liked quite a bit. Unfortunately anime also had cat ears, mid day soap style series (Hello Naruto) and various other perverted things.
I like a good series with a solid storyline - without the cheap shots and over dramatising. The few anime I do enjoy, aren't very popular with the masses. Monster and Persona are my two favourite animes. Clannad (minus the comedy) and Cowboy Bebop (for pop-art culture) are also memorable.
Naruto, Bleach, One Piece and even Death Note, as examples, I don't have much interest in. These days, there isn't much around that interests me.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Apart from the usual Anime stuff that they showed whilst I was in late primary school and early high school(pokemon, DBZ, Sailormoon) I haven't really ever watched any series. I bit of Samurai Champloo and The Cowboy Beebop movie is about it. That and Studio Ghibli/Hayao Miyazaki films, I find them to be absolutely beautiful, both in their visual design and the story's they tell.
I think for me that the amount of shows on offer make it very overwhelming to pick a place to start if I was to try and get into it. I would have no idea how to sort the good from the bad and these dvd's are too expensive just to drop money on the first volume of every new series that comes out just to tell if it's crap or not. Also the way that they stagger seasons over multiple releases is unappealing, I don't want to buy 12 separate dvd's so I can watch a season. There has just always been to many barriers in the way for me to event bother getting into it as a hobby.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| LeonJ wrote: | | Benza wrote: | | LeonJ wrote: |
I'm talking about *proper* anime/manga. I've enjoyed these series quite a lot: |
Sorry but there's no such thing as propper. Cowboy Bebop is just as legitimate an anime as Pokemon.
Anime is a sub-medium of Animation. Not a genre.
Also am I the only one who couldn't stand Death note? In had a **** incredible second OP. That actually convinced me to watch the show. But dear god that show was a convoluted piece of crap. I got up to were L and Light started going to school together and just couldn't take anymore "If I do this, then he'll think this, or will he think that I'm doing this so that he thinks that, so maybe I should do this, but then will he know I'm doing this instead of doing that, so he will do this and.... " it just kept going... |
Nope. You are alone. Granted the 2nd half wasn't as strong as the first, Death Note was a landmark in manga/anime. It was clever and griping at the same time. A classic.
A fantastic anime/manga drama.
And proper?
HELLO. That's like saying Friends and L.A. Law are similar shows. Just because it's in anime *from* doesn't mean it's of the same class, genre or quality. I should have said 'adult' anime/manga instead of children. |
My god, I think we've just found something we can agree on... Personally I love anime and have a pretty decent collection to boot (DVD's and Soundtracks, I don't buy into the who figure/statue side of things).
In general I also think anime is of a much higher standard that typical western tv animation(Films are a completely different ballgame). Of course there is crap anime but there are also awesome examples such as Bebop, Death Note, Ghost in the Shell: SAC, Clannad, Rahxephon etc. which are just head and shoulders above what any western tv animation has ever achieved. Of course most western tv animation is catering for a different audience but it doesn't change the fact the quality generally isn't there.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| LeonJ wrote: | And proper?
HELLO. That's like saying Friends and L.A. Law are similar shows. Just because it's in anime *from* doesn't mean it's of the same class, genre or quality. I should have said 'adult' anime/manga instead of children. |
if it's Japanese, and animated, it's anime. it's got nothing to do with saying their similar.
that doesn't mean there aren't sub-genres within the anime media type - there certainly is, just like there's the "American Sit-com" type, which can contain both 2.5 Men, and Community. Or there is the Vampire Novel type, which will contain The Strain, and Twilight.
some are good. some are not.
and just like the American Sit-Com type, i find some Anime good and interesting to watch, and others, i don't.
just like anything else.
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Benza
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | which are just head and shoulders above what any western tv animation has ever achieved. |
I'm guessing you've never watched must western tv animation that wasn't aimed at kids?
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | Quote: | | which are just head and shoulders above what any western tv animation has ever achieved. |
I'm guessing you've never watched must western tv animation that wasn't aimed at kids? |
I'm going off the top of my head here so give me some examples and we'll take it from there.
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Benza
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Aeon Flux and The Maxx spring instantly to mind.
If you like your adult aimed shows a little more light hearted I'd throw in Venture Bros, Boondocks and Ugly Americans too.
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bradc1988
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Anime is fantastic escapism. I find it highly appealing.
Story and characters for me. A lot of anime also have some fantastic music. Berserk and Death Note most notably out of what I have watched.
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fatpizza
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| bradc1988 wrote: | Anime is fantastic escapism. I find it highly appealing.
Story and characters for me. A lot of anime also have some fantastic music. Berserk and Death Note most notably out of what I have watched. |
Pretty muc anything composed by Yoko Kanno is brilliant, for anyone who doesn't know she did both Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the Shell: SAC amongst other things...
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fatpizza
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | Aeon Flux and The Maxx spring instantly to mind.
If you like your adult aimed shows a little more light hearted I'd throw in Venture Bros, Boondocks and Ugly Americans too. |
I have seen the odd episode of Aeon Flux but I haven't seen the others. I might check them out. Either way since it's all personal preference chances of us fully agreeing are slim.
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