"Japanese gaming is dead" Keiji Inafune

[Benza]

A new interview is out with Keiji Inafune who claims that japanese gaming is dead and the games at TGS are awful.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/one-on-one-keiji-inafune-game-designer/

I always find it fascinating reading interviews with him when he's so frank about everything. He also seems to echo the opinions of a lot of gamers in

[dloiscute]

Fail statement. 90% of the games I buy (and upcoming titles) are from Japanese devs.

Amazing games like Nier clearly think outside the box and look how western reviewers treated that .
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[Jarrod]

Basically all of his complaints could be directed straight back at Western studios with just as much validity.

I probably like more Western development studios than Japanese studios, but I dont really feel the levels of stagnation are higher in one over the other. I love Valve, but I also love Nintendo. BioWare keep me interested, and so do Grasshopper. Conversely, Epic bore me to tears as does Square-Enix (slight exception for Eidos).

As you said, Capcom are still putting out great stuff, and Platinum Games look to be scoring a solid 4 for 4 (in my opinion). Throw in developers like Team Ico and From Software and I dont think Japan is doing too bad for itself.

I will say though, we've seen some great Western stuff over the past couple of years, especially on the indy front and from more obscure European developers. Publishers like EA have really picked up their game too. They still have their junk, but they're also pushing games like Dead Space (with a sequel), Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect, Crysis, Bulletstorm, Dragon Age, and other great / great looking games.
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[Pagan's Mind]

I agree somewhat. No More Heroes 2, Nier and Bayonetta are the only games I've played this year that have really tried to break from convention.

[Ramblerun]

I agree to disagree.
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[shinhawk]

What I'm getting is that Mr. Inafune wants gaming to become globalized and I just can't see that happening as everyone has varying tastes. Also, I don't really agree with his criticism about designers sticking with a certain formula. I don't feel that a company needs to drop a successful formula for something new just for the sake of trying something new. New ideas don't always equal good ideas. Besides, there's tons of companies out there. If a gamer needs some variation, play games from other companies.

For example, I love Nippon Ichi's SRPGs and I think their SRPG formula works well for them and I don't think they should ever drop it. If I happened to get a little tired of their games at the moment, I just play different kinds of games from another company. I'd prefer consistency over variation for variation's sake.
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[LeonJ]

Will FFXIII was a dissapointment (while good, still a step back in the series). That's normally a benchmark in Japanese games.
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[Cyph]

FFXIII should've been called something else, like a spin-off, then it would have been more appreciated.

But yes, I hope Japanese games stay 'japanese' and do not become westernized; I'm over all the mundane 'me too' stuff that comes out these days.

[ZeroX03]

Tekken 6 proves his entire discussion invalid.

TSB,
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b+2,1 mindgames

[LeonJ]

^ You mean the SFFV? Check metacritic.... (either version).
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[ZeroX03]

[UWSguy]

Like someone said on another board, if I wanted a Western game I'd buy a game from a western developer.

[Frozencry]

Somewhat agree with him. Apart from Team ICO, From Software and to a lesser extent Capcom, Japanese game dev has stagnated massively imo. I'm also really REALLY not big on Mikami or Suda 51's stuff, and JRPGs have been pretty much the same thing over and over but with improved visuals and tweaked mechanics.

I also find most of their animation work pretty terrible. That being said, that's kind of ironic saying that as Team ICO have the most impressive games animation wise imo (though they seem to heavily use western style animation techniques).

I dunno, but the same can be said for a lot of western development. The epic of the Ut99/2k4 days is dead and now make turdburger games, and there are plenty of other devs who just churn generic and unimaginative stuff. Though on the other hand, the indie scene is mostly pretty fantastic with some great developments.

Gaming in general sucks. I hate everything. /jaded
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[Hollo]

Work commitments meant I couldn't get to the TGS this year, but from what i hear I didn't miss much. Gaming houses are joining forces so fewer booths.

I don't think the Japanese gaming houses are dead though, as there are still upcoming releases from companies like Cave or Capcom, but I will say that it's become stagnated a little bit - might be the calm before the storm though. I am noticing more and more people getting into the retro and arcade scenes here, and very little influence from western gaming houses. I reckon Japan might take a new route in the next few years and release some unexpected stuff. Fingers crossed.

[Island_Wolf]

Didn't Kojima said something similar?

I do somewhat believe. The glory days of Japanese developed popular franchise games been be reduced gone but it won't be dead, just like PC gaming it will be stubborn as there are still fans and a group of people. It's just a combination of the world is changing but the franchises isn't catching up with interesting innovation and new formula which had worked in the past.

I personally feel it is more like sequels of anything, first one you played, its new and therefore interesting, more and more games of the series you play and it can either still interest you or it wears off due to factors such as it was a poor development, "been there done that" (which I think is a big factor), change in gaming interest...

What I'm hoping though is this will help bring more innovative games, doesn't hurt breaking out the formula especially when games with the likes of Okami, SotC and ICO can prove it can be done and be known for many years to come (not just FF7). Not asking Japanese to westernise themselves but if adaptation is required for survival, change happens.

Not dead but it ain't what it used to be.
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[Hollo]

[The Genius]

When was the last time you played a black hero?

Answer: You can't remember.

When was the last time you played a respectable female hero without skimpy clothes on?

Answer: You can't remember.

This is one of my biggest personal problem with gaming in general, Japan or Western. Not only are the gameplay mechanics not evolving but the stories and type of characters too are stagnant.

You are always a white male or slutty looking female character. Its seriously holding games back.

Games are growing generation by generation interms of technical abilities, the graphics, voice acting etc, but the substance is lacking interms of mature content.

Adult oriented games, mean sex, nudity, gore, etc but not really mature interms of ideas or story.

Big fan of football so loved the PES series. But is has sucked this gen but still every football season its number one in Japan. Its utterly disappointing people playing the same stuff.

My other gripe with gaming is that increase in difficulty simply means more damage and enemies in most games and not smarter AI.

I have enjoyed many games this gen, but only one stands out as truly trying to evolve interms of a really mature and deep story and mechanics and that is Bioshock.

We are playing the same games but with different names.

[GooberMan]

Defenders of Nippon strike again!

Not only does the article give insights in to Japanese culture, but it also points out who Inafune thinks is doing it right. Their local industry is 8% of the global industry according to him, so it's no wonder they're all trying to work out how to crack western markets effectively. It seems alot like Japanese history is going to repeat itself again - they'll keep going on their current path until they can go absolutely no further, then finally sit back on top of the ashes and work out what they did wrong and then finally make a change on how they do things.

He does seem to interchange "Western" and "Global" a few times though. He seems conflicted whether they should conform to western ideologies or take inspiration from them. The latter would be preferable, and would also repeat history - namely, their film and animation industries post-WW2.
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[Hollo]

[GooberMan]

[Hollo]

[Island_Wolf]

Believe me, Gooberman is more knowledgeable than you think, just because he isn't a Japan fanatic he knows his stuff, so I wouldn't call him blind, just a person who sees it differently.

It is hard to say Japan itself, the closed nation to outsiders, actually not been affected from outside when many of their things were influenced by outside East Asia in the first place. So I wouldn't be so quick in saying the Japanese culture needs to be defended.

Anime is arguably influenced by Disney movies.

Trading card games like Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon was after Magic: the Gathering.

Japanese RPG start in Japan after Western RPG and according to wiki, most popular translated RPG is D&D, so even Japan isn't immune to D&D!.

There are numerous examples to use how a lot of Japanese "stuff" (my generic word for a word I couldn't think of) actually had outside influences just like with a lot of other culture. I could even go as far as to say MGS was a lot like those American conspiracy literature I see and read and probably these literature had influenced the game in a way.


Edit - Don't get me wrong, I used to love Japanese culture to death but I was also blinded, overlooking many flaws like their views on outsiders, what it really is like living there and stuff, their social system. Now, I just go with the flow. All cultures have their flaws.
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[Frozencry]

[JmiYeo]

Otakuism, is actually very large, if you put into the context of the origin size within Japan, and the appeal and following inside and outside of Japan.

For every 1 fan being vocal, I believe there are 5 times more fans that aren't vocal and choose to be quiet about their liking for the subculture.

The reason being, unlike most popular culture, there is a discriminating view amongst the general populace not are not interested and they see as pointless and childish. Being an otaku, can be view as a "secret society" where they generally do not and will not be vocal about it. Any discussion related to the subculture, tends to only stay within themselves.

As for how anime and games being influenced by others outside of Japan, that is not incorrect. In fact, a lot of things from Japan are from outside influences since the ships forced their way in. That's why there is the saying "[Insert Country] invented it, the Japanese perfected it."
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[Hollo]

You know the interesting is that I think you guys are taking me as a person who is defending Japanese culture. I have lived here for more than 8 years and trust me that couldn't be further from the truth. Man, the frustrations I have had....

All I am doing is looking objectively at that article, and bringing other elements to the discussion. Bringing up the origins of anime is pointless though guys, as the important thing is what's going on now. The Japanese didn't invent video games, they didn't invent animation, but the fact that you guys know what 'manga' is, and also that you've probably played Mario and loved the originality of it means that these Japanese creations crosses boarders.

I hate over-generalizations, and that article is exactly that. How can it even be said that Japanese gaming is dead when they have Nintendo?

Due to my work I am involved with people in research regarding technology here, and there are ideas coming from Japan which give me a fair bit of faith - nanotech is probably the most eye-opening. Don't disregard Japan as a gaming nation just after reading one article. He is just pissed he didn't come up with the Bandai arcade machines idea.

Great thread though!