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Macka
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 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| StompBrother wrote: | | Waggling to attack will get annoying (just like in Twilight Princess) and only exasperated by the unresponsiveness during Miyamoto's demo. |
I was worried after seeing the controls fail on stage, but every preview I've read since has said that the controls work. The MotionPlus can use the infrared sensor bar to recalibrate itself and all of the other infrared devices in the audience were screwing with it, hence the dodgy demo.
I didn't mind the waggling in Twilight Princess, and it should be even less annoying here considering the 1:1 will mean no waggling the same way 20 times a minute.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| StompBrother wrote: | | It's way too similar to all past Zelda's. The same weapon sets with the whip nothing but an improvised hookshot. The new flying beetle is nice but after all the hype about making a change in Zelda I was stumped at how similar it is to all the older ones. |
You cant really make that call unless you were expecting an absolutely massive overhaul of everything. There's so much more to Zelda than the combat, and the combat is all we actually learned about.
I'll wait until I learn how the rest of the game plays before I make similarity comparisons.
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ManeKast
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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The fact you dont need to point the wiimote at the screen, aces. ONLY thing about Twilight I didnt like was this.
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StompBrother
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| Jarrod wrote: | | StompBrother wrote: | | It's way too similar to all past Zelda's. The same weapon sets with the whip nothing but an improvised hookshot. The new flying beetle is nice but after all the hype about making a change in Zelda I was stumped at how similar it is to all the older ones. |
You cant really make that call unless you were expecting an absolutely massive overhaul of everything. There's so much more to Zelda than the combat, and the combat is all we actually learned about.
I'll wait until I learn how the rest of the game plays before I make similarity comparisons. |
I WAS expecting a massive overhaul actually. Even if a half overhaul. I know its been promised multiple times but saddened to see the bright settings, same adult link look from Twilight Princess and the provocative darker image of the promo poster a few months ago shattered by what's shown in the demo.
It's still about execution of the same mechanics shown that will prove merit but to me it's all a little samey all over again. Yes, I will buy it. Yes I will enjoy it. But I'm not gonna deny there will be a massive sense of deja vu. The last 3 non handheld Zelda's gave me a sense of dejavu from a gameplay perspective.
I dunno. I guess I am getting very jaded but I am just looking for a change. Skyward Sword will just be nothing but a showcase for motion-plus controls over rehashed ideas. For example... deflecting a deku scrubs deku nut attack. Done it before, this time with gesturing. Firing an arrow, this time with gesturing. Throwing a bomb, this time with gesturing. I don't mind too much but it certainly is just a showcase. To be honest I'd rather not have these gesture controls or have an optional standard "Classic Controller" controls as I often just want to sit back and not wave my arms about for an hour straight. Motion Plus, I've noticed with Sports Resort and Red Steel 2, requires you to stretch out your arms even more and perform more proper gestures than just a quick waggle to trigger a simple action.
Hopefully the story will mimic the grand scale of Wind Waker or the romantic first-love interplay between Midna and Link in Twilight Princess. Or, some of you will probably hate me and disagree, but another level as cleverly designed as the Water Temple in OoT. With the exception of Majoras Mask where a true adult feeling game was explored using a world filled with absolute life with NPC's on set paths to corroborate with the time travelling aspect for some Groundhog day shenanigans of both humour and tear worthy moments. The very melancholic "purification of Hyrule" ending of Wind Waker and how the characters aren't actually directly called Link or Zelda. Or as the aforementioned emotional moments in Twilight Princess of a rather blank Link given a warm hint of life in him by experiencing first love. Aonuma on the helm should repeat these great moments. Just gameplay wise... looking samey and showcase-y... to me.
Just the ramblings of an old gamer here.  I do love the series and just want Nintendo to challenge us gamers and give us a new take on the franchise.
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Capoeira
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:26 am Post subject: |
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^ Nice post. Definitely agree with wanting to see a major overhaul of the Zelda formula. There are only so many interations of the same style of game you can play before the magic is lost. I was feeling pangs of that with Twilight Princess, so I'm not exactly bursting with enthusiasm for this.
I know in my earlier impressions I was all for keeping it familiar, but I've been thinking about it lately and figured we should expect a lot more from Nintendo and the series. It's disappointing to see them tread the same ground and not take the big step of showing us a Zelda we've never seen before. Given the 'Twilight Princess was last Zelda of it's kind' talk before the reveal, I feel like they let us down by not delivering on that.
Early days, I know, but given the impressions I've read and what I've seen, the style has already been defined. There's no mistaking it; this is the OoT formula yet again. I guess it's too much to ask right now for that brand new Zelda experience. I'll just have to dream on how cool that might have been...
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LeonJ
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:50 am Post subject: |
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I have to admit when I saw the bright colour screens for the new Zelda I was instantly dissapointed. The game will be good and nice but I can bet you money there will be lighting torch puzzles.
I was really hoping for a dark Zelda game.
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plazma
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Just cause of it's art style doesn't mean it can't be dark.
From what I've seen the colours are more of a saturated painting-like video game. But because of this saturation the darker colours can be... well... darker. Just because all the demo showcased was a bright tutorial-esque level, does not mean the whole game will be like that.
The art style, just like almost any can be made to have a dark feeling. With video games, music, ambience, weather and NPC's make a darker feel than simply an art style.
I am going to take this demo as simply a showcase of combat, and nothing else.
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pom013
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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I would love to see a Zelda game that ended with Link saving Zelda but not escaping, being defeated and blasted into another dimention or something but not being killed (like gandalf in the LOTR). The story could then be picked up in a sequel were you take on the role of Zelda/other character (pref. Zelda) to save Link and then together, defeat Ganondorf once and for all.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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For what it's worth Aonuma is not the director of Skyward Sword. He's the producer. This time Hidemaro Fujibayashi is directing, who also directed The Minish Cap.
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DancesInUnderwear
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| StompBrother wrote: | | know its been promised multiple times but saddened to see the bright settings, same adult link look from Twilight Princess and the provocative darker image of the promo poster a few months ago shattered by what's shown in the demo. |
Am I misreading this, or are you suggesting that this new Zelda looks like Twilight Princess and not the teaser pic? Because Twilight Princess looks exactly like the teaser pic (neither of which look like this). Both of those things also look boring as bat shit, and like every other game ever. Once they fix up the little issues in Skyward Sword, like Link's doll-face, it will be stunning visually.
As for the gameplay itself, which is the main issue, I don't know, I think its way to early to tell. Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy are pretty drastically different, but if you were just thrown into one area and given the chance to muck around trying out Mario's different moves, they'd probably seem much the same. So even though SS might seem like the same formula as the last 4 games, they could still place it in a way thats completely different. Now, will they? Probably not, unfortunately, but who knows?
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Azza
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Jarrod wrote: | | For what it's worth Aonuma is not the director of Skyward Sword. He's the producer. This time Hidemaro Fujibayashi is directing, who also directed The Minish Cap. |
Let's hope he doesn't introduce another annoying piece of headwear. 
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DancesInUnderwear
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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What? The Minish Cap was great (as in the piece of clothing, not the game... however the same can be said for the game). Quit yer bitchin'.
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StompBrother
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Jarrod wrote: | | For what it's worth Aonuma is not the director of Skyward Sword. He's the producer. This time Hidemaro Fujibayashi is directing, who also directed The Minish Cap. |
Ah! Now the neon mushrooms and bright settings make sense! I thought it was a little off Aunoma's usual vision. I quite enjoyed the Minish Cap. Talking hat included. Loved the new items introduced to the game and the dual world gameplay of the mini/normal sizes.
| DancesInUnderwear wrote: | | StompBrother wrote: |
know its been promised multiple times but saddened to see the bright settings, same adult link look from Twilight Princess and the provocative darker image of the promo poster a few months ago shattered by what's shown in the demo. |
Am I misreading this, or are you suggesting that this new Zelda looks like Twilight Princess and not the teaser pic? Because Twilight Princess looks exactly like the teaser pic (neither of which look like this). Both of those things also look boring as bat ****, and like every other game ever. Once they fix up the little issues in Skyward Sword, like Link's doll-face, it will be stunning visually.
As for the gameplay itself, which is the main issue, I don't know, I think its way to early to tell. Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy are pretty drastically different, but if you were just thrown into one area and given the chance to muck around trying out Mario's different moves, they'd probably seem much the same. So even though SS might seem like the same formula as the last 4 games, they could still place it in a way thats completely different. Now, will they? Probably not, unfortunately, but who knows? |
Was just reffering to Link's look. As for the promo poster/picture. I didn't think it looked boring as bat droppings. I just found it a nice change fromt he usual bright settings of the majority of the Zelda games. Hence why I enjoyed Majora's Mask so much. It had a horror element which I'm partial to.
As for the comparison with Mario 64 & Galaxy... that was the point. They were drastically different in execution using the same gameplay platforming mechanics. Granted, we are yet to see more of the thematical gameplay design for Skyward Sword, but the demo still showed nothing drastically different in the execution of the franchise bar the motion-plus 1:1 sword play.
As I said earlier it really is about the execution. If they maake the rumoured flight mechanics a reality then that's something to differentiate itself from being another OoT reboot. We had the groundhog day play of Majora's Mask, the touch screen interface of the DS Zelda's, the massive waters and sailing of Wind Waker and hopefully there is flight mechanics for Skyward Sword to give it a memorable thematic dynamic to the franchise.
I guess after playing well over a dozen (there's been about 14 games? not counting the CDI Zelda's) Zelda games, I'm starting to grow tired of the main gameplay mechanics. Well maybe not growing tired of it. I guess its becoming too predictable? I just don't want my interest waning from repetetive ideas. And there has been a lot of gameplay mechanics recycled over and over in each game. Like the case in Twilight Princess.
Hopefully the delay will bring forth grander twists to the usual Zelda style.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Interview with Eiji Aomuna
Most interesting part is one of the changes to the traditional Zelda formula that will be in Skyward Swords. He notes that Zelda traditionally has had a field with dungeons, and that you go into dungeons, kill enemies, solve puzzles, and then beat a boss.
This time they want to blend the two, with sections of the field area operating similar to dungeons, and some dungeons operating in a way different from the traditional enemy/puzzle/boss formula (he notes perhaps a dungeon where you lose the sword). He wants the borders between the traditional seperateion of field and dungeon to be removed.
Other stuff includes the controls, which he says didn't come about from them trying to change Zelda's controls just for the sake of it, but instead because the controls felt more natural than before.
Graphics are a product of the controls, particuarly the sword play. To convey the swordplay correctly, such as in the enemies, they needed to have over exaggerated animations, and that worked much better with a more 'manga' art style than a realistic art style as seen in Twilight Princess.
For the story, its a lot of what we already know. Link starts in Skyloft, which is a floating land above the clouds, and will be going back and forth between the world below and Skyloft, 'searching for a valuable friend'.
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Cerebral
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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^ But surely there are other ways of telegraphing enemy animations than simply reducing the detail of textures? Gameplay aside, I always felt that Zelda was the one franchise that Nintendo would always go all-out on, visually. Each game aims to tell an epic fantasy story and the scale of this is reflected in the way it is presented (the sunrise in Hyrule Field on the N64, a really big moon in MM, sailing the ocean in WW, whatever TP had).
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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I do not see it as reducing the detail of textures. It is a visual style akin to cel shading, in this case the game looks like an impressionist painting. If you look at high res scans you can see what they mean by that.
I really like the style!
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Cerebral wrote: | | ^ But surely there are other ways of telegraphing enemy animations than simply reducing the detail of textures? Gameplay aside, I always felt that Zelda was the one franchise that Nintendo would always go all-out on, visually. Each game aims to tell an epic fantasy story and the scale of this is reflected in the way it is presented (the sunrise in Hyrule Field on the N64, a really big moon in MM, sailing the ocean in WW, whatever TP had). |
Huh? Just because it doesn't look like Twilight Princess doesn't mean it lacks texture detail. This time they've chosen a water colour visual style, closer to the strong tones of Wind Waker, over the more realistic direction of Twilight Princess.
I mean yeah, we're not getting a realistic, gritty Link this time, but we didn't in Wind Waker, and to me Wind Waker captured the essence of adventure far better than any of the Zeldas, even if it had its share of flaws.
I think the flaw in the visuals so far is that they're obviously still a work in progress. As Miyamoto said, this Zelda has had a different development cycle compared to previous Zeldas, with the visuals taking place much later in development. So much so, that the next six months (or more) are dedicated almost exclusively to the visuals of the game. Its probably the reason they didnt show much at E3; a lot of what is completed works on a gamplay level, but probably using basic placeholder art assets.
Comparitively, Twilight Princess had its visual direction set long before gameplay was completed, and Aomuma felt that as they were designing the game they spent too much time trying to fit the gameplay to the realistic proportions and direction, and ended up ignoring some of the more abstract ideas they wanted to impliment.
EDIT: Looking over the Skyward Swords screenshots, I wouldn't say the texture resolution is any lower than Twilight Princess anyway.
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THEMAN
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'm honestly not hyped for this at all. But I'll buy it when it launches. So it better be good.
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Cerebral
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Okay, citing texture detail itself probably wasn't the best way to describe my thoughts, since the visuals are essentially a by-product of the 'watercolor' art style. I suppose my problem stems from how out of place everything looks. Link's model suggests a mature-aged link (with a really weird face), the environment suggests a disproportionate fantasy world (similar to Wind Waker), the color scheme is over-saturated as though Link ate one too many mushrooms, and as a whole, the clashing of the colors and the watercolor effect make for an awkward, blurry mess.
That said, the bit about the unfinished art assets (surely those trees are unfinished) and the area serving as a small portion of the game, could ring true (and best case scenario Link's expression could be given a bit more character), but as it stands, it didn't strike me as a very good first impression - something you would expect a stage demo for a flagship franchise at the world largest games expo would aim to achieve.
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the_spensa
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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So according to Eiji Aonuma, a producer of Skyward Sword, this game should be getting a release in early 2011. So does anyone here reckons that this game is going to actually come out then, though we shouldn't mind the delays if it means they are polishing up the game.
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plazma
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Bah, not a chance.
I foresee about one whole year before Australia receives the game.
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Luketheman5
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=130953
In this amazing confidential "Zelda Timeline", this takes place before Ocarina of Time. Interesting!
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Must take place after Minish Cap as well, so between that and Ocarina.
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renegadesx
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Jarrod wrote: | | Must take place after Minish Cap as well, so between that and Ocarina. |
I keep on hearing that Minish Cap is supposed to be the first, but I seriously dont get it. What is so significant? The hat?
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| renegadesx wrote: | | I keep on hearing that Minish Cap is supposed to be the first, but I seriously dont get it. What is so significant? The hat? |
I believe so. A lot of people consider The Minish Cap to tell the story of why the Hero of Time always wears a green cap.
But it is Nintendo, and it could mean nothing.
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