Bioware - FF13 ain't an RPG

[draexem]

[Cyph]

He's just trolling. My all time favourite definition of an RPG is from RPGfan (this journal is from 1998!);

What is a Role Playing Game? Personally, I like to define a Role Playing Game as a game that MUST, ABSOLUTELY have three elements. One is a statistical setup for characters that describe certain skills/aspects of that character. Two, it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system). Three, it must have a menu-driven combat system that utilizes the skills/aspects of the characters. Given there are other elements of RPGs that I'll leave out because of their obvious nature, these are the elements that are required for a game to be labeled RPG.



Personally, I would say FF13 is a form of RPG. Just like how most MMOs are RPGs, how pen and paper DnD are RPGs and so forth.

FF13 may not an RPG like the previous incarnations were, but it's still an RPG. Whether you like the game for it or not is a different matter.

[Shnryu]

ugh.. not this sh*t again...

[pom013]

I would disagree with the a menu driven combat system being a requirement. I know games like Oblivion are not completly devoid of combat menus (i.e. magic) but for the most part they utilise a combat system that would leave them classed as something other than an RPG according to that definition.
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Farewell Rocketship!

[draexem]

You take out the requirement of menu driven combat from the above definition and you are left with a definition that defines Tiger Woods as an RPG.

I don't know how RPG gaming got associated with stats and stuff but I think people have to get out of the habit of thinking that stats define an rpg game.

[Fyuusii]

Is that you, ElPrez?

Other than that; he's right, guys. Anyone who's ever done serious RP before knows that statistic-driven adventure games, like Final Fantasy, are not RPGs in the true definition; it's a completely bastardised term.

Levels, time-battle systems and the like are merely representations of real-world physics; these aren't the core of role-playing. Sure, Dungeon & Dragons had these too, but they're not the reason the game was called an RPG.

[Nietzsche]

I think the term works in the way that saying JRPG everyone knows what they mean. The actual terms hardly describe what the game is as almost every game you are playing a role.

[Gtpod]

Crystarium = RPG. I'd like to see something like that appear in Tomb Raider.
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[Sin Ogaris]

By his logic Mass Effect isn't an RPG.

[Scrav]

Bioware is just on their high horse again. There probably really isn't a single definition for an rpg as it covers such a broad style of games and has for quite a long time.

I enjoy both JRPG and WRPG (see what I did there?) plus many other subgenres of rpgs.

Console/computer rpgs were heavily focused on combat and not much else in the early days. The rpg genre split off in many directions from those days to what we have today.

I guess it is amusing to see Bioware make another wank statement.

[Ka-Pom]

Ha! Bioware criticizing others? Aren't they the ones who haven't released a single decent RPG in 7 odd years? How about they look at their own "Role Playing Games" before shooting down others.

Although I expect this kind of crap from Bioware, they think themselves RPG kings. Sorry Bioware, that crown was buried with Troika, so fuck off back to your hole.

[Jarrod]

For me, RPGs are all about choice and consequence. The more robust the choices and the deeper the consequences, the more of an "RPG" it is for me. Fallout, PlaneScape, and everything Troika did, are fantastic examples of this; you can play through the games multiple time and still find and see new things, thanks to both the character and the game world developing based on the choices you make.

Its why I dont really consider Oblivion to be anything more than an RPG-lite, and even BioWare's Mass Effect franchise is getting closer to that territory (though not quite there yet ).

But I dont agree with it being about spreadsheets and menus. If anything, I think we should be trying to abandon the P&P presentation of RPGs in videogames. Ultimately it comes down to being given choices and those choices having consequences. When things become streamlined, options limited with arbitrary choices, then we leave the realm of the RPG.
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[Quin]

Okay Bioware, roll your game design theory skill.



Oh dear.

(Hint: Since the dawn of tabletop games, GMs have also used pregenerated characters in campaigns)
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[Cyph]

Fyuusii, I disagree in part. There are different forms of RPGs. True, (pen and paper) DnD can be considered the most pure form of an RPG, but the latest generation of (electronic) RPGs are still RPGs, just implemented in a different form.

I wouldn't be calling Mass Effect an RPG by any means. And I guess even FF pushes the boundary, as in essence the character(s) you play already have pre-defined levelling paths.

[byrnezy]

[Fyuusii]

[Fyuusii]

By the way, Cyph; your neg was for labelling the OP as a troll, not for your opinion. I'm happy that you felt gifted enough to return the favour to me just because I think differently from you.

(sorry for double-post, posting on an iPod is hard)
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"Now I stand, the lion before the lambs... and they do not fear.
They cannot fear..."

[He need to cut the ego.]

When he said troll, wasn't he talking about the Bioware guy?

These days it's becoming harder and harder to define genres because games mix parts of other genres into games.

[Fyuusii]

[Cyph]

Err Fyuusii, I was calling the Bioware guy a troll, not the OP.

I neg'ed you due to your eagerness to neg my valid post. All I did was provided another person's view on what is an RPG and stated my opinion. All you did however was disagree with no clear argument as to why (rather, it was convoluted - what game do you consider to be an RPG then). Also, I love how you wrote 'Feel free to disagree, you're still wrong.' that's real juvenile.

Anyway, be a pal and let me know when your gestapo friends are about to come knocking at my door.

[THEMAN]

I don't care if FFXIII is or isn't a RPG

but I know what it ain't


a good game.
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[Fyuusii]

[Pagan's Mind]

I think this topic is just flame bait and should be closed. Saying that, FFXIII is an RPG and a bloody good one at that too. Since when are RPG's only "create a character, make story choices" type games? It seems like this guy is just talking up his own games.

[Cyph]

[ObsoletE]

personally, i agree with him - but i think that's why they're called JRPGs, to distinguish them from RPGs, or ARPGs, or CRPGs.
arguably, you play a role of any game with a character, so i can't really fault the acronym, although if the naming conventions were up to me when they were being dealt out, i'd probably have called it something more like an Anime Adventure Game, or something.

i'm not saying they're (Final Fantasy games - i've really only played a handful of JRPGs but FFs are the ones i remember) bad games with this agreement (despite them not being my cup of tea) but i just think they've more in common with games like The Force Unleashed (it has upgradeable weapons and "spells") than what i grew up with as RPGs.

nothing to do with pre-generated characters either, since i still maintain that the Grand Theft Auto games since GTA3 (but especially San Andreas) have more in common with RPGs than people seem to think, albeit not in a Sci-Fi or Fantasy setting.

if you like them, great, if not, that's cool too.
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