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Jarrod
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 Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:30 am Post subject: Zelda Wii Thread: Speculation, Rumours, Flight Mechanics |
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Within this tomb we shall hold the legend that is Zelda, Wii.
An interesting point mentioned on GAF regarding recent interviews with Aonuma (Zelda Wii's producer);
| Quote: | "I have an eight-year-old son myself at home, and quite recently he started playing The Phantom Hourglass for DS, because when the software first hit the market he was too young. When he started playing with the boat, I told him: 'In the next Zelda, you are going to be able to ride on the train.' He answered: 'OK, Dad, first boat, and then train? Surely next time, Link is going to fly in the sky ... '"
Aonuma pauses, grinning. "I just don't know. If many people make many speculations ... some of them might be correct. Right now, I have to refrain from commenting on anything."
Of course, that wasn't all he said about Zelda Wii.
"With this attachment (talking about MotionPlus), your minute hand movements are more precisely reflected ... You can feel it so naturally and so intuitively. It's not just an improvement over the movement of Link himself: the realisation of your more minute movements on the screen will expand the entire gameplay. I believe that we will be able to offer some great innovations in the new Legend of Zelda. Of course I have to refrain from giving any details, but we are contemplating altering the way the game progresses in comparison with all the past Legend of Zelda franchises." He looks apologetic again as he catches himself short of giving something away. "But I have to stop talking here." |
Delicious source.
Flight mechanics in Zelda? Discuss!
And, for a bit of a summary, here's all we know about Zelda Wii!
- Has been in development for a long, long time. Historically, this is the longest we've gone between the release and showing of a new console Zelda.
- Visual style not yet finalised.
- Will use MotionPlus heavily for sword and interaction, and according to Aonuma there has been a fantastic response from testers, and the on-screen response is almost perfect. Ironically, the game was in development before M+ even existed, and it had to worked into the game mid development (would explain the huge development time). Claims MotionPlus in Zelda will lead to "great innovations".
- Significant changes to general formula and design.
- Dungeons are, to some extent, still in.
- Twilight Princess considered a game to build off. With TP they wanted to create a vast and realistic world for the series, but dont feel the potential was met. Intend to build of this, as well as other concepts, for Zelda Wii in hopes of realising this goal.
- Internet rumours followed. Some are correct.
- Elements from Monster Hunter 3 may inspire new elements of Zelda.
- Miyamoto working very closely with the team. Many arguments taking place over what does/doesnt work and what should be in the game.
- Zelda team put up to the challange of meeting or exceeding the visual quality of Monster Hunter 3.
- Practically confirmed for an E3 2010 showing. Release date? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Aaand the only visual anything we have of Zelda Wii is this artwork (click for a bigger, more detailed image);
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Last edited by Jarrod on Sun May 02, 2010 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Marka
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Dungeons are, to some extent, still in? Ok, now im a little worried.
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KT
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: |
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I just hope i can still play it with the GC controller.
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?oe?oe
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Marka wrote: | | Dungeons are, to some extent, still in? Ok, now im a little worried. |
It may be that you won't just walk up to a dungeon and go "oh look, here's the next dungeon", it may be just more incorporated within the world itself.
| KT wrote: | | I just hope i can still play it with the GC controller. |
Very unlikely, since it is heavily using Motion Plus.
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Peveus
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
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You couldn't play the Wii version of TP with a cube controller why would they add it back for one that makes even further use of the remote? As much as I wish they would -_-
What we're going to end up with I think is a radically casualised Zelda game... I'm sure it will still be good, but as good as the classic? I dunno.
When it says Monster Hunter my initial thought is many short missions as opposed to several long dungeons/quests.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure what to think about all this. I'll reserve my judgement until I see footage of the new game.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| KT wrote: | | I just hope i can still play it with the GC controller. |
Its using MotionPlus, so no, it wont allow CC/GC controller support in any way.
| Quote: | | What we're going to end up with I think is a radically casualised Zelda game... I'm sure it will still be good, but as good as the classic? I dunno. |
I'm a little worried of this too, but it depends what you mean by casualised. Zelda is pretty standard as is. If it's even easier that would suck, but hopefully not more streamlined (on rails hur hurr). The open aspect of Zelda works fine.
Nintendo are an interesting bird. It's easy to say they casualise, but neither Prime 3 nor Mario Galaxy would be games I'd consider casualised in any way. Mario Kart was, but the end result was still fantastic. Zelda Wii casualised? Maybe, but I want to specify that Aonuma has never hinted at anything like that. If anything he's hinted at the oppoisite; he wants a realistic, deep game. A bigger, better Twilight Princess.
Fingers crossed. In the meantime, more info;
| Quote: | Series director Eiji Aonuma says âsheer grand scale" is the starting point for developing the next Zelda.
Edge 211 features Links To The Past, an in-depth interview with series director Eiji Aonuma about his memories of working on gamingâs greatest franchise. But there are a few nods to the future, as well. We asked Aonuma about the âepicâ feel of Twilight Princess and its subsequent reception, to which he said:
âFor Twilight Princess we used the adult Link and one of the interesting things about that was how we considered the precise proportions of Link and the world. The scale is because we aimed for a more realistic quality in the size of the environments of Hyrule and what that Link faced.
"But the question is whether or not we were able to incorporate any and all of the interesting game ideas that were able to take advantage of that kind of sheer grand scale within the Zelda universe. I am afraid that definitely no, we were not able to do all the things that perhaps with hindsight we had the capabilities to do. With that as the starting point, we are now developing the Wii version of Legend Of Zelda.â
Aonuma went on to admit that the discrepancy between imagination and representation was his greatest regret about the previous Wii game:
âIn the case of Spirit Tracks it was relatively easier, because regardless of the actual proportions between the player character and the other objects, we can simply concentrate upon the many game ideas we want to realise. But in the case of trying to depict a relatively photorealistic three-dimensional world, we have to be very careful to adapt the ideas so that they seem to perfectly fit with that world. I must admit that's actually one of my very greatest regrets as regards the Twilight Princess.â |
tldr? Aomuma feels the heavy realistic direction of Twilight Princess caused them to cut/alter/ignore interesting content and ideas as they didn't feel like they fit the realistic proportions of the world. He regrets this, and hopes to amend it in Zelda Wii.
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KT
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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I actively choose to play TP on the gc just so i could use gc controls. It's a feature i would like to see return.
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Shadow Wave
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| KT wrote: | | I actively choose to play TP on the gc just so i could use gc controls. It's a feature i would like to see return. |
I know, just saying not to expect it at all. If M+ is integral to the gameplay and interaction, which it seems it is, there wont be any kind of standard controller support.
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DancesInUnderwear
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Every single game that comes out for Wii, people piss and moan about it not having 'regular' controls. I don't get it. The Wiimote, M+, Nunchuk combo should be the greatest combo for immersive gameplay, yet people don't want to see it thrive for whatever reason.
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Shadow Wave
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:23 am Post subject: |
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^ im one of those people, I am not a fan of motion controls at all.... every gaming session I have that involves constant use of the wii mote... such as Metroid Prime after an hour or so I notice my wrist is just killing me etc... Its like real bad RSI but in a real short time.
Anyway, It would be great if they could implement the Gamecube controller into the new Zelda, but I doubt they will.
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Azza
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Weren't there flight-based mini-games in Twilight Princess? The new mechanics better work somewhat...smoother than that.
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Qbert
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| DancesInUnderwear wrote: | | Every single game that comes out for Wii, people piss and moan about it not having 'regular' controls. I don't get it. The Wiimote, M+, Nunchuk combo should be the greatest combo for immersive gameplay, yet people don't want to see it thrive for whatever reason. |
I'm sure motion control will be great one day, but at the moment it's probably the equivalent to the original NES control.
How did Twilight Princess sell? I would asume if it sold well, they will make another in a similar style, and if it sold bad, make it more appealing to a larger audience. The DS, Zelda: Spirit Tracks was disappointingly casualised, but I don't think that necessarly means that the Wii version will be. I know that Eiji Aomuma cares a lot about the series and will make the best game he can. I'm more worried about others in the company who may want it to be more casual to sell better.
I don't believe the rumours about it being in the future though, I wouldn't like that either. I just hope they make a massive overworld and I really want them to integrate sailing in with the game, but not to the extent of Wind Waker. I think it would be awesome if there were 3 or 4 different 'islands' or land separated by rivers etc. I really want a HUGE overworld with heaps of nooks and crannies and side quests. I really want Nintendo to bring back the exploration element that was so great about Wind Waker, but make it more exciting. Eg. in Wind Waker, you would sail for ages and discover an island, but there would be like a rupee or some boring thing there. How cool would it be if there were tons of hidden and far out lands that didn't relate to the game, but resulted in fun challenges, side quests, different boat parts/suit parts/weapon parts/whatever.
And I hope they bring Epona back. Riding him again in Twilight Princess was great and the horseback battles were the bomb. Basiaclly I want a more 'epic' zelda.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Gotta start somewhere though, and I consider M+ to be a huge step up over the basic remote. Itâs just a shame thereâs been no-one to really take advantage of it, as where it has been used itâs been phenomenal. Tiger Woods M+ is, for me, the definitive golf game thanks to the peripheral. Hopefully Zelda Wii and perhaps Red Steel 2 make motion controls prove their worth.
As for Twilight Princess, itâs done great. Japanâs sales were lower than expected I believe, but console Zelda has been on a downward plummet there for awhile. In PAL land itâs the best selling Zelda game ever, and from what Iâm aware has already outsold Wind Waker worldwide.
In other words I donât see sales, outside of Japan, to have much of an impact on casualisation. They seem more focused on refining and altering the experience to keep it fresh, rather than simplifying.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Shadow Wave wrote: | whatever happens, its depressing it wont be in high definition...
God of War Collection shows just how much better things can look in higher res.. |
WII2 ?
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Shadow Wave
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: |
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^ heh, well that would be nice, but Nintendo have said they have no plans.. unless they are lying 
------
Anyone else agree that with this reboot they should do a few things such as:
-Ditch the decade old soundtrack (Ie, the house music is getting old)
-Ditch musical instruments as key gameplay elements (TP Almost did this, but then ruined it by making the wolf sing those classic OOT tunes
-Bring BACK magic
-Ditch the story lines that begin about telling you about OOT. (Wind Waker etc)
-Ditch SOME of the classic items that arent really needed. Like the Iron Boots, maybe the sling shot.... maybe the hammer? (not really sure)
-Revolutionize the Z Target system again, perhaps use the motion controls for quickly changing targets or something? (I dunno)
-Bring back upgrading/recieving a better sword during the game
-Bring back new armor / upgrades (cos the rupee armor in TP was a joke)
I was just talking with a mate last night about it, and we agreed that for a proper reboot it needs to separate itself from the last decade of Zelda games.
While its nice to hear that favorite OOT soundtrack all the time, as good as the game was its 12 years old. It's time to move from reminding us how good OOT was.
Anyway, just thought id throw the idea up here, what do you guys reckon needs to change in Zelda for a successful reboot that will hopefully be as amazing as OOT.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Shadow Wave wrote: | -Ditch the decade old soundtrack (Ie, the house music is getting old)
-Ditch musical instruments as key gameplay elements (TP Almost did this, but then ruined it by making the wolf sing those classic OOT tunes |
You'd probably love returning tunes if they'd just orchestrate the music. Galaxy had phenominal music and a lot of it's tunes were rewritten and returning tracks from the classic games, only orchestrated.
TP had some lovely written tracks but the midi sampling they used was...well, horrible. Terrible, terrible low quality samples. The wolf howling is a perfect example. It's really, really bad.
I kinda think of the musical element to important to Zelda to some extent, they just need better samples, and perferably an orchestrated score. TP sounds like shit not because of the composition, but because the samples are so bad.
Fingers crossed that with the absolutely amazing effort put into Galaxy's soundtrack and sound effects Zelda Wii gets a similar effort.
Totally agree.
| Quote: | | -Ditch the story lines that begin about telling you about OOT. (Wind Waker etc) |
I think it's important to some extent to refer to the past in Zelda. It is, after all, the 'Legend' of Zelda  . But I've never found any of the Zelda's to have a strong story and dont really need them to. TP had just the right amount, in my opinion. Different strokes for different folk.
| Quote: | -Ditch SOME of the classic items that arent really needed. Like the Iron Boots, maybe the sling shot.... maybe the hammer? (not really sure)
-Revolutionize the Z Target system again, perhaps use the motion controls for quickly changing targets or something? (I dunno) |
Agreed, but I wonder what impact M+ could have on returning items. My stance is that if no extra depth is given, ditch them for something new, if not return them and prove how M+ can breath new life into old items.
OoT was very much 'classic Zelda'. Numerous items it had were from the past NES/SNES Zelda games. It was the fact they were in a 3D environment that made them feel fresh; it put a new angle on their functionality and interactivity with the player.
M+ could potentially do this, but if they find they're struggling to give new life to items they'd be better off building some new ones.
| Quote: | -Bring back upgrading/recieving a better sword during the game
-Bring back new armor / upgrades (cos the rupee armor in TP was a joke) |
This x 1000. TP is completely broken in its rupee system, and I miss outfits and swords being collected throughout the adventure. TP has, what, two swords? Three outfits, one of which is the basic tunic and the other is the woeful rupee armor. The Zora tunic was pretty cool though.
I like your ideas and it encourages discussion, so here is what I think needs to be changed/added/fixed for Zelda Wii;
- Seamlesss flow of the overworld into dungeons. Snowpeak Ruin in Twilight Princess was awesome because you didn't realise you were in a dungeon until you were knee deep. Less start/end points and more flow. Integrate dungeons into the overworld itself.
- Orchestral score and better sampling for sound effects. Galaxy set a standard and if Zelda Wii doesnt have an orchestral score I'll be very disappointed. If the sampling is on par with TP Nintendo need a slap in the face.
- More sidequests, and rewards that are item related. Rupees such and rarely have any real functional purpose in any of the Zelda games. TP had some cool sidequests, but it was pathetic how so many of them rewarded the player with rupees. It's a dud reward of which has no use. Put more sidequests in, and have the rewards be equipment and items to flesh out Link. OoT did this and it encouraged completing sidequests as you knew what you'd get would be worthwhile.
- More adventure and mystery. I love TP but it has a heinously boring overworld. There's nowhere to go, nothing to explore, and no secrets to be found. I want to see an huddle of trees in the distance, ride over, and find something to interact with. I want to explore a cave and have it reward me with treasure or quests. If I want to stop doing the main story give me something to do, even if that something is just exploring!
- Prove M+ and motion/pointer controls can give new life to Zelda. I'm certain it's possible, but not entirely confident they'll pull it off. Fingers crossed, as potential is there.
- New puzzles. Zelda games are so formulatic in puzzle design it's become predictable. 3 hit bosses, boomerage hitting multiple switches, putting a block on a switch, etc. Make it fresh you bastards.
- If you dont want to make the overall game difficulty higher, add in a fucking difficulty option that makes enemy attacks do more damage. It's cheap but it's something to bypass the crazy simplicity of recent Zeldas.
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mcerto
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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off the top of my head, one of the BIG things they need to fix is rupees. i mean, you dont NEED them in twilight princess. why would i buy stuff? i can go cut grass for my bombs and arrows. fairy's? i know where they spawn on each map. nothing is worth buying, nothing is needed. the only thing you use rupees for is the awesome looking (but useless) armor, but that drains them to quick.
so give me something i WANT to spend them on. that i need. that i can work towards. and i dont mean a bridge that i can pay for 1/3 of the way through the game.
i know theres other stuff, but lets start small, mkay?
EDIT: awesome, eatchildren summed me up better 
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Shadow Wave
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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-While I agree orchestral scores would be a huge improvement, I still think that they should wipe the slate clean and start with an entirely fresh soundtrack, as its just clinging to OOT.
The overwhelming feeling that I got with Twilight Princess, is Nintendo was just clinging to everything they did in OOT just tried to remind everyone of the awesome game that they once made. Thats why I feel they should just start completely fresh.
-With Rupee integration, I agree that it should be done much better. BUT if their idea of it is to introduce an armor/weapon upgrade section that the most games have nowadays I would be pissed.
Perhaps just simply buying items instead of finding them would be cool, ie you could buy the Hookshot from a blacksmith instead of finding it an random chest.
That or maybe you could buy option things that don't alter the game, such as costume additions (like Assassins Creed 2) Or pimp out Epona or something.
-Sidequests would be great, and not lame dungeon crawling ones, Ones that have great stories that are completely unrelated to the main story but FEEL like they are a main story.
-Gotta agree that its nothing worse when you find a cave go all the way to end find 50 rupee's and get a 'your wallet is full, oh well' message.
-A mysterious more darker story would be great, like more dark than Majoras Mask maybe even slap on a MA rating  At least try and make it not as predictable.
-I didn't even think of dungeons yet...
- You should be able to kill enemies when you have knocked them over (TP introduced this, but it could be done better)
- Dungeons need to be reworked to follow a different formula, the whole Map > Compass > Small Key > Small Key > Small Key etc > New Weapon > Big Key is getting highly repetitive and predictable, i think its making Zelda veterans find the game easier as well because you already kind of know where to go.
- Maybe even ditch small keys all together? there's no real need for them... doors could be locked by other ingenious things. Or they could perhaps be more open ended?
-OH!!! VOICE ACTING! Is a must! It would be nice to have Link talk finally (which would be a HUGE step forward and show that they can move on from leeching off OOT's success) You'd just hope they pull off the voice for Link well. And if they can't pull off that, at least give voices to the game's other characters.
- From the above picture it looks like they are giving adult link another chance, which I like. Wouldn't it be cool if they gave Link flashbacks or something where you played as a younger link of various ages for a while.
And finally.... NO WOLF!
wow i wrote a lot.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm completely against voice acting. I'm of the belief it is in no way a completely benificial element of all games, and instead a design choice that either does or doesnt work in the game's content.
Link should forever remain mute, and if they're going to do voice acting for all the other character it needs to be -perfect-. If Nintendo cant make it flawless then I'd rather they not bother.
Games like Oblivion/Fallout 3 show how horrible voice acting and scripting completely destroys all atmosphere and character. They're so bad I'd rather read.
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Qbert
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| EatChildren wrote: |
- More sidequests, and rewards that are item related. Rupees such and rarely have any real functional purpose in any of the Zelda games. TP had some cool sidequests, but it was pathetic how so many of them rewarded the player with rupees. It's a dud reward of which has no use. Put more sidequests in, and have the rewards be equipment and items to flesh out Link. OoT did this and it encouraged completing sidequests as you knew what you'd get would be worthwhile.
- More adventure and mystery. I love TP but it has a heinously boring overworld. There's nowhere to go, nothing to explore, and no secrets to be found. I want to see an huddle of trees in the distance, ride over, and find something to interact with. I want to explore a cave and have it reward me with treasure or quests. If I want to stop doing the main story give me something to do, even if that something is just exploring!
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Yes! This is exactly what I want. The sidequests need to be epic. I love the idea of seeing ruins in the distance or bombing a random rock and finding an enterance to a huge underground cave. And yes, the rewards must be great. And I agree with Shadow Wave, no more "your wallet is full'! Or at least have a bank system (but would prefer just a bigger purse).
And I agree with NO voice acting for Link. I'm all for voice acting for the other characters, it makes the game feel more alive. Or they should at least try it try it and have an on/off switch. But no voice for Link.
And we won't be seeing an MA rating I don't think. I would alienate way too much of the market. I don't think it would make the game any better either. It can still be a dark Zelda game without blood/swearing etc (not saying you were suggesting this) as the ratings are mainly based on those kind of things, not the actualy maturity level of the game or narritive.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:16 am Post subject: |
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I dont see why you'd want an MA rating in the first place. What kind of content would be required to make it MA? Probably excessive blood and gore. Zelda doesnt need it and it would seem like a really try-hard way of cranking up the maturity of the franchise.
As you said Q, a game can still be dark without blood and swearing. I'm all for maturity in my games, but it and adult content are two seperate things. Zelda doesn't need the latter.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| EatChildren wrote: | I dont see why you'd want an MA rating in the first place. What kind of content would be required to make it MA? Probably excessive blood and gore. Zelda doesnt need it and it would seem like a really try-hard way of cranking up the maturity of the franchise.
As you said Q, a game can still be dark without blood and swearing. I'm all for maturity in my games, but it and adult content are two seperate things. Zelda doesn't need the latter. |
I agree, this game doesn't need blood, at all. It would just completely change it. They can make it a more mature game without gore and swearing, that doesn't create a mature game, sometimes the opposite.
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Shadow Wave
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:55 am Post subject: |
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With the MA rating idea, I was just meaning it could give more story possibilities and directions. Although I'm not sure where. Perhaps this new Link's family was murdered and starts off as a revenge story? I dunno. (yes its a cliche I know)
besides that im not sure.. fighting humans maybe? Perhaps removing the music sound effects when you hit an enemy. Maybe a little blood would be nice, instead of puffs of smoke or whatever when you connect with the enemy. No huge blood stains are required or anything...
Im craving an experience thats just as out there as Majoras Mask was. But with a better world map.
-The main reason I think Link should be able to talk is during those scenes when you meet new characters are this happens...
"Hey, so your that hero dude...?"
*1 second passes*
"WHAT?! You've need to save the princess?"
The current structure works well, but I wouldn't mind seeing some banter there really.
-Wouldn't it be sweet if you played as an Evil Link for a while (perhaps you didn't know you were evil at the time) Then something happens and you have to reverse what you have done or something...
-it would also be good if they found a way to reduce time spent in pause/inventory menu's etc and kept you in the zone.
Once again im just jotting idea's as they come to me.
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