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Modern Warfare 2 accused of promoting terrorism
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GooberMan




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Lord Haart
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Lord Haart wrote:
I think we are yet to see games that embrace the artistic side of themselves over the enjoyment side.

Far Cry 2. I could write a thesis on that game.

Lord Haart wrote:
it failed to show that (a) the people you were killing weren't always purely evil characters and (b) the collateral damage and deaths that would realistically occur. When a book or movie covers or parallels a historical event, it should be accurate and thorough.

A quick look at some of the highest-regarded anti-war movies and literature indicates that you don't need to show the enemy as not purely evil and not show the colatteral damage from events to send across a clear message. What is the message of the Modern Warfare series? Playing it breaks apart the romanticism that many people have built up about modern warfare in the real world - that it's just a matter of sitting back and pushing a button. The air support mission in MW was brilliantly placed and an excellent juxtaposition. You've just gone through ground combat with all these characters. What does sitting back and pushing a button feel like? Wrong. Detached. Desensitised. There's a potent message there if you understand the context that they're going for.

Lord Haart wrote:
Now, don't get any ridiculous ideas about me supporting terrorism in any way; the second someone becomes a tool for murder like that, they lose their humanity in my eyes. But it's important that we as a western society understand what brings people to that point, so we can see that there are ways of preventing it (hopefully, some of which don't involve just shooting the buggers).

I agree. But that's not the agenda that IW are pursuing with MW.

Lord Haart wrote:
Actually, my fear is that sections like this, which take a controversial issue and dumb it down, will reinforce to the public that games cannot teach complex messages.

I view it more as paintings on a cave wall. We're just beginning to realise the potential of the medium. IW put stuff in their games that pushes the boundaries of what is acceptable and expected. Excellent. They're paving the way for either future games from them or the next big studio to do something truly extraordinary or groundbreaking. The MW series definitely seems more subversive than revolutionary to me.
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yniilater




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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ill tell ya what i think all those people that are against this game grow up. im 15 years old and i dont think any game influences me i play need for speed and it dont make me want to drift down streets at 150km/hr. i also play gta and it dont make we want to slaughter every person i see in real life and neither dose call of duty its a great game one of the best by far, the game has a great story and i dont think the level where you a terroist will effect me or the other 99.9999% of gamers out there ill probably enjoy itther are many games that have terrorism in it and i cant even remmeber the story behind it so it didnt fase me at all even if its rated (r) im still buying it no matter what so grow up and have some fun its a video game it gets you to experiance all different types of objectives that you wouldnt do in real life and religion has nothing to do with it just "get real and grow up" if you think the game is wrong and shouldnt be sold dont buy it duhhh are ya that stuped just dont buy it for your kids if u dont like the game. if your not going to ever play it dont complain... and dont ever go to an airport because u might see some 10 yr old terrorist running around... grow up seriously...
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Gamesta




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Qbert wrote:
And how is it any different to mowing down dozens of civilians in GTA? Killing innocent people in this game is similar to others, but with the slight difference that you are a 'terrorist'. It even shows the bad side of your actions which many games don't.




That's an easy question to answer.Killing innocents in GTA is nowhere NEAR realistic and it's so cartoony that it's actually funny to kill innocents.A lesser extent in GTAIV but I still found it hilarious watching people bounce of the front of my car.


This game on the other hand far more realistic.The graphics are FAR more realistic, the actions of the people being killed is more realistic ie. that one person carrying a victim to try and save them and then being killed themself.The screaming is also far more realistic than GTA.The noises people made in GTA's were quite funny.


I found this scene a little disturbing (which is why they say some games have a heavy impact) and not once has a GTA game made me feel that way.
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Qbert




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Island_Wolf
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^I disagree, I usually feel bad in games killing innocents no matter what. I guess I take it seriously. Even in Assassin's Creed I get a small feeling of guilt when I kill a civilian (unless it's one that follows me around and asks me for money. Hearing the same NPC voice 1000 times would drive anyone crazy). And in GTA IV I usually feel bad killing them too, unless they started me. For instance when I jack a car, I never kill the owner unless I have too. Not that that makes me some angel, just that I think it is realistic. GTA IV was VERY realistic to me in many ways.
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GooberMan




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Hey Gamesta, I'd like to introduce you to my friend Nathan Drake.
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Infested Jibbs




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Gamesta
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Qbert wrote:
^I disagree, I usually feel bad in games killing innocents no matter what. I guess I take it seriously. Even in Assassin's Creed I get a small feeling of guilt when I kill a civilian (unless it's one that follows me around and asks me for money. Hearing the same NPC voice 1000 times would drive anyone crazy). And in GTA IV I usually feel bad killing them too, unless they started me. For instance when I jack a car, I never kill the owner unless I have too. Not that that makes me some angel, just that I think it is realistic. GTA IV was VERY realistic to me in many ways.


I'd feel somewhat weird about blowing a crawling guy in mw2 away, while he begs for his life...but in gta i revelled in not just jacking a guy of his car, but calmly walking(not running) up to the front of the car, whipping out a deagle, blowing the guys head off through the windscreen, then calmly walking around to the drivers door, pulling the fresh corpse out and then peeling off.

It was so macabre, to play the part of the hitman, detached from the actions he is undertaking.I took great pleasure in it, i spent so long finding the straightest road, the fasted car, adding the two and then looking for a potential victim, whether it be some douche on his mobile or guy on a bike.

Or the always classic, jack a car, try to speed off but the former owner jacks his car back from you, you get so pissed off(the NERVE of him to defend himself!) you chase him down by foot or a close-by bike or another car, catch up to him, pull him out of the car, and BEAT THE LIVING SH1T OUT OF HIM WITH A BAT.And i'm talking wailing on the poor bastard, for minutes at a time, like the guy from saw 1 at the end with the toilet lid (STOP!STOP! HE'S ALREADY DEAD!).

Then calming getting back into his car and making your way to a hot date.

Oh the duality of man!

Maybe it's the first person perspective that makes it a little more unnerving.I don't know honestly.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Lord Haart
yniilater wrote:
are ya that stuped


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Just doing some research and well…. In my opinion it looks like MW2 (Modern Warfare 2) might not get through the classification board of Australia. After MW2 has been acused of promoting terrorisum. a lobby group who are requesting the OFLC review its rating decision.

The group, dubbed the ACCM (Australian Council on Children and the Media), has cited the game promotes terrorism and is still accessible to children despite its current MA15+ rating. Which mean that if this game is review by the ACCM, the current MA15+ rating may be rasied to an R18, which is bad news for Australian gamers.

“Spoiler Alert”

Some aspects of MW2 puts you undercover as part of a terrorist organization, Resulting in a mission within the game where you try to take hold of an airport to further infiltrate the terrorist group. So here is what I believe will be an “ISSUE” for the classification board.

When you try and take over the airport the terrorists are shooting innocent people. At this point the game gives you an option to shot them or not shot them. Resulting in different outcomes, obviously Infinitaty Ward (MW2 Game Developer) is looking to offer a non linear game play here….Whatever!!!

My concern is that this will inherently warrant an R rating classification, and might hit a little to close to home for the tight collared amongst us. Unfortunately we all know Australia doesn’t have an R18 classification. (THANKS TO MICHALE ATKINSON!!!) So I am a little nervous about the release of this game. Please note I am not suggesting this game will be banned, yet denied classification and result in a cut version of the game. But as an Australian gamer. Haven’t we been disappointed enough over the years? And most recently with the decision to ban Left For Dead 2? I am concerned that the recent action of the classification board will deem this game to violent.

I am going to be watching this very closely over the next week, but if history has taught us anything, terrorist themes depicted in a video game, have attracted an R rating classification. And if this is the case with MW2 then fans of the game LOOK OUT!!!
I am sure if this game dose not pass the classification board then it will still be released with the rejected content removed, or the content decreased to pass a MA15+ classification.

BUT!!!!!

As an Australian having traveled the world and experiencing the Video Game culture that other countries have to offer, I will be extremely disappointed if this is the result. Thanks to the actions of Michael Atkinson not only will the fun and excitement that video games give us be diminished, but the chance to interact globally with other gamers will be effected. Not only have we been pacient in relation to this matter, but we have been subjected to substandard and overpriced internet access for to long. We have been subjected to being berated as childish, and not to mention our media of choice i.e.: “Video Games” is the only form of media which has still not been recognized as a serious art form. All these matters aside. An R18 Classification for this form of entertainment has been overlooked for to long.

For a long time now there has been a call for “Video Games” to be referred to as “Interactive Entertainment” I for one have a problem with this description of what a “Video Game” should be called. And it may be one reason why “Video Games” have yet to achieve an R18 classification. The word “Game” refers to a childish act, and has no reference to any form of entertainment that an Adult would partake in. However if changed the word that many believe will give “Games” more substance “Interactive” that will also prove difficult to pitch as a legidiment form of entertainment, with no stereotypical stigmas attached. “Interactive” suggests the user interacts with what is happening on screen with some kind of action, and theses actions will transfer into real life depictions of what happens within the “Game.” However it dose raise a good argument. My argument is … If I watch a DVD with adult content IE: R18. Or any other kind of DVD for that matter. Then am I participating in a form of interactive multimedia? In fact watching a DVD in it’s purity is exactly what a “Video Game” is. In a “Video Game” I use my controller in an interactive way to achieve some form of entertainment, Then in it’s purity isn’t watching a DVD the same?

Let me explain. I have to select what I want to watch, deciding how I want to be entertained, I have to put the DVD in the DVD player and select to play the movie by using a remote control, not that dis-similar to using a” Video Game” controller is it?
So here’s the thing. I can make the decision to have a DVD show me media of a R18 content. However I am unable to access almost exactly the same content using my “Video Game” consol. And watch the same content displayed in a “Video Game” environment.

For to long now classification for Video Games in Australia has been substandard, not only dose this effect my experience as a gamer but it also is a direct intent to restrict the content I wish to access. Recent Studies done by Bond University indicate that a majority of people whom they interviewed wanted an R18 rating to be introduced, and many psychologists back this study and condemn the position of Michael Atkinson.

Electronic Frontiers Australia is running a campaign to have the R18+ classification for games introduced in Australia, and
if you would like to contact Michael Atkinson’s office in relation to this campaign his details are below.

Michael Atkinson
Croydon Electorate Office:
488 Port Rd, Welland SA 5077
Tel: 8346 2462
Email: croydon@parliament.sa.gov.au

For now lets hope MW2 passes classification, and doesn’t result in another game being troughed onto the boiling pot of what is fast becoming a source of frustration and disappointment in the Australian gaming community.

Ryan Denne
Gamertag (didzy02)
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Gamesta




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Qbert wrote:
^I disagree, I usually feel bad in games killing innocents no matter what. I guess I take it seriously.



The cartoony graphics make it insanely easy to kill people in video games even when they are poor inocents.If I see cartoony graphics then I see it as cartoony and have no problem offing them.

But more realistic graphics are sometimes different.Take MGS2 for example, for the most part I didn't have problems killing the enemy because they aren't just innocent people going about their daily life.But every now and then I would feel bad about killing them so I would just tranq them all.
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MikeZombie777




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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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You do realise that trying to define art means you're missing the entire point of it? Art is whatever you want it to be.

Art is entirely subjective.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Lord Haart
Gamesta wrote:
Qbert wrote:
^I disagree, I usually feel bad in games killing innocents no matter what. I guess I take it seriously.



The cartoony graphics make it insanely easy to kill people in video games even when they are poor inocents.If I see cartoony graphics then I see it as cartoony and have no problem offing them.

But more realistic graphics are sometimes different.Take MGS2 for example, for the most part I didn't have problems killing the enemy because they aren't just innocent people going about their daily life.But every now and then I would feel bad about killing them so I would just tranq them all.


Well for starters, I didn't really think GTA IV had cartoony graphics? icon_confused.gif But you're right, graphics do come in to play to a degree. But I feel that there are other factors such as story and emotional attachment which contribute more, or at least just as much as graphics do. Graphical style can matter, but it's not the be all end all.
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