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Qbert
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 Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| hello123 wrote: |
Leisure Suit Larry: Manga Cum Laude: Was a game filed with sex and sexual reference and is not needed in the gaming industry (mearly a game for perverted people) |
Get of your high horse and realise that people have different opinions. It's not needed in the gaming industry? Your argument has as much weight as someone wanting to ban JRPGs because they don't play them.
| hello123 wrote: |
I don't think you understand the MOST people in Australia (gamers are a very small market) would agree with the banning of these games. There are valid points to why they have been banned. And like i have said before watching a movie is different to playing a game. And you said something about actors.....well i don't know if you know but a lot of actors suffer severe mental problems |
I don't think you understand that MOST people in Australia prefer netball to cricket. See? I can make up a fact too!
| hello123 wrote: |
The reason as to why games like gears of war are let as MA15+ is because you are not killing human beings. |
Are you actually defending this? So can we call the people in GTA aliens from another planet and then it would be OK to kill them
| hello123 wrote: |
Because regardless of Ratings somehow children or teenagers will still obtain games like gta or gears to play. |
 Mate, people under the age get beer and smokes. Should we ban them? Or should we actually expect parents to do their fucking job?
| hello123 wrote: |
But that said children should not be playing games like killzone or gears of war lol, and i would blame parents mostly for that. |
Exactly, so don't bring them in as an excuse
| hello123 wrote: |
Unlike you my friend i am guessing most people do not need to "express" there intend to kill humans in a realist violent game. |
Yeah, you are guessing. And even if "most" don't, does it matter? Most people don't smoke, should we ban that? There are tons of things that "most" people don't do, but when did they have to conform?
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ObsoletE
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Qbert wrote: | | hello123 wrote: |
Because regardless of Ratings somehow children or teenagers will still obtain games like gta or gears to play. |
Mate, people under the age get beer and smokes. Should we ban them? Or should we actually expect parents to do their **** job? |
the problem with this being an excuse, is that the current scheme is so broken that parents might legitimately be concerned about what's in a game, see it's MA and think it's ok for their 15yo kid.
not everyone can be an over-shoulder parent.
sure, there'll always be people who don't care, or kids who get around the rules, or even stores that'd rather test their luck by breaking the law, but it does hurt those legitimately trying to do the right thing.
and personally, i have no issues being carded to buy alcohol or see an R Rated film in the cinema(not that that happens much any more  ), so i'd have no issue being carded to buy a video game.
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Full Metal Jackoff
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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You can all rage back and forth with "Protect the children!" and "F*** the children!" for an eternity, for all I care. My problem is simply being an independent adult, with my own source of income, being told I have no right to view and experience what a child shouldn't.
Not everyone wants to swing a Wiimote to shuffle stumpy-limbed, lego men knock-offs. Not every gamer wants to fondle plastic guitars to corporate-rock bands with Flock Of Seagulls haircuts and Danzig combovers. On the flip side, not every person wants to troll a post-apocalyptic wasteland, strung out on irradiated mutant yogi bear meat, severing a merchant's head for giving you a smart-arsed remark.
But none of these games should be banned, when the gaming industry needs plenty of diversity and differing genres, to cater for the current (and future) generation of both finicky hardcore/casual gamers AND potential consumers. If you want kids to feel uneasy and reluctant to play titles with an R18 classification, whack all those titles into the same 'XXX HARDCORE' dens of social taboo, or prohibition speakeasies.
And why stop there, let's throw all that film and music with those naughty words and visually/verbally graphical depiction of sexual debauchery too. Don't forget anything that elicits anyone to question authority, pursue an alternative lifestyle, have conviction in their beliefs, or evil witchcraft or mythical beings. Finally, Billy Bragg thrown in the same pool as Skrewdriver, Twighlight will be frowned upon in the same vein as True Blood...
Just an idea, hear me out.. How about, instead of denying mature adults from spending their own money on their own tastes, to protect the children, why don't we focus on some other issues? Like parents more concerned about their plasma tel.. uh, I mean 'baby' bonus grant? Or better and more CURRENT sex education and alcohol/drug education in public schools?
But wait, we shouldn't do that either. Then they'll be aware, informed and educated about those issues. Nah, it would be much safer to hide these truths. That way, we can PROTECT our children..
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Qbert
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ObsoletE wrote: | | Qbert wrote: | | hello123 wrote: |
Because regardless of Ratings somehow children or teenagers will still obtain games like gta or gears to play. |
Mate, people under the age get beer and smokes. Should we ban them? Or should we actually expect parents to do their **** job? |
the problem with this being an excuse, is that the current scheme is so broken that parents might legitimately be concerned about what's in a game, see it's MA and think it's ok for their 15yo kid. |
Yeah I was kind of on the same page as you here which is why I was using examples that you have to be an adult (18) to get.
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Jellyfish
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Qbert wrote: | | Mate, people under the age get beer and smokes. Should we ban them? Or should we actually expect parents to do their **** job? |
Only reason smokes aren't banned is because the government makes a ridiculous amount of money off the tax. Same for alcohol but probably also cause the pollies like to drink as well.
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Qbert
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Jellyfish wrote: | | Qbert wrote: | | Mate, people under the age get beer and smokes. Should we ban them? Or should we actually expect parents to do their **** job? |
Only reason smokes aren't banned is because the government makes a ridiculous amount of money off the tax. Same for alcohol but probably also cause the pollies like to drink as well. |
Yeah that's a reason why they aren't banned, but are you trying to defend the reason? So if smokes didn't make any money then people should not be able to choose to smoke them?
And btw the government loses more than it gains when you take into account the medical expenses associated with cigarette related health care.
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Jellyfish
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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There was a study, that proved that the taxes gained from smokers outweighed the costs associated with cancer and all that. 
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Qbert
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Just as there were studies that proved otherwise.
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unlachs
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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For the most part, the arguments put forth in this thread against a R18+ rating are kind of ridiculous. People talk of all the terrible things that would be introduced into gaming if R18+ rated games were introduced. That little kids are all of a sudden going to be exposed to the most horrific and immoral acts of brutality. But hey, nothing like that happens these days. The current crop of MA15+ games are just TOTALLY FINE. SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS.
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renegadesx
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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ObsoletE, the thing I am taking exception to is hello123 thinking he has some sort of moral high ground to dictate what I as an adult can and cant play/watch. He's free to speak this, but freedom of speech goes 2 ways.
Your points that yes games like GTAIV should have been R18+ I have no argument with whatsoever and agree with you on alot of points.
DarkSector and GTAIV I have the unrestricted versions, actually in the case of GTAIV you can actually make it uncensored it with a PS3 patch or Lost and the Damned on 360. DarkSector isn't really that good of a game but again completely not the point.
Leisure Suit Larry, yes unsuitable for children but again nothing wrong for adults, Mr hello123 begs otherwise.
Now, hello123 onto your points
| Quote: | | Fallout was censored because the characters were using morphine |
And? A fictional character using a pain killer in a fictional game? What is wrong with this for adult entertainment?
| Quote: | | Manhunt was banned because: the killing had a sense of realism, and was brutally inhumane (killing with plastic bag, needles...etc |
You could make that argument about any game with realistic graphics 'for its day'. You have plenty of games where a rocket launcher will rip someone to shreds (even the original Quake well over a decade ago)
GTA IV: Same lame argument
| Quote: |
Leisure Suit Larry: Manga Cum Laude: Was a game filed with sex and sexual reference and is not needed in the gaming industry (mearly a game for perverted people) |
Says who? Oh I forgot your the new messiah of Standards and Practices! I would have you know I have an imported copy and found the game fairly comical and had a sort of "American pie" sort of thing going. Or do you want to ban the American Pie films, Road Trip, Eurotrip and all of those too? Again, give me one reason why an adult shouldn't be allowed to play it.
| Quote: | | DarkSector: Banned because to much violence done to humans |
As someone who as the US version (I have a habit of importing censored games, its a spite thing). The only difference is the dismemberment thing, thats all they removed and trust me, there are worse games out there that got MA15+. DarkSector is actually quite mild.
| Quote: | | Left 4 Dead 2: Banned because once again to much violence done to humans. |
Zombies people! Z-O-M-B-I-E-S! Again, you can do all sorts of creative stuff to zombies in games like Dead Rising!
At the end of the day, I ask you (again) name one reason why an adult, who knows the difference between reality and fiction, shouldn't have the right to play any one of those games. Just because you yourself have conservative tastes is no reason. Its just wowserism.
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Passa
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Jellyfish wrote: | | I'm with hello123 in saying I'd only support an R18+ rating if most of the current crop of MA titles were moved into it. |
And this is what I agree with - to an extent. As I said elsewhere, I think it is concerning that titles like Condemned or Dead Space are deemed suitable for 15 year olds, both titles arguably containing content more in line with an R18+ rating. The issue is that we have a unified rating system for films and games. It can't crossover. We need more rating categories. There are massive discrepancies in the ratings of games and films currently, something I find overwhelmingly problematic. Halo and Halo 2 were both rated MA15+. Around the same time, the first Saw film was rated MA15+.
The question of content still being banned.. personally I'd much prefer a world where such measures were not necessary. Should games be banned in a post R18+ landscape, they'd have to be carrying some heavy/depraved content in my view. Let me ask you this, should a game containing a controllable ra*e scene be banned? Do you think a film depicting the protagonist doing the same thing would also be banned? Undoubtedly many of you would devolve into an argument of 'well games are interactive'.
My underlying point here is that video games are a constantly evolving format and I can say with confidence that there is no truly effective rating system in the world right now. The introduction of hardware like the Wii changed the debate a bit (remember the Manhunt 2 discussions?) and yet still before that, rating systems were yet to mature. We need a new system, from scratch. We need more specific displays of what is controversial content within a game. A two letter code, wide age group, vague one line content summary and specific colour is not enough information for parents and whomever else the ratings may concern.
EDIT: PALGN censors the word r*pe? Seriously? Fine, let me rephrase, I meant sexual penetration without consent.
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harness
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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If you have a look at the threads on IGN or Gamespot, you have a host of ignoramuses blaming the OFLC, or even the nation as a whole.
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MikeZombie777
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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********The biggest problem we have had is that nothing really of any importance has been refused classifications until Left 4 Dead 2.******
That's just plain wrong. Silent Hill Homecoming, GTA3/San Andreas and Fallout3 are all games of some of the largest franchises in the industry. Guess what they all have in common? At some point they have been banned banned and censored.
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renegadesx
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| harness wrote: | | If you have a look at the threads on IGN or Gamespot, you have a host of ignoramuses blaming the OFLC, or even the nation as a whole. |
I know, I was the guy who originally had to correct GamePolitics (a site that specialises in this sort of thing) that the OFLC is just doing its job handcuffed and Atkinson is the one responsible for all this and proud of it.
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