R 18+ Classification Roundtable

Anthony

R 18+ Classification Roundtable by Anthony

PALGN Feature: We give our thoughts on the adult video game debate.

ManeKast · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:29 pm�� Post subject:

Great article.

Though I still cant get past the fact that in this day and age and adult/parent cannot be treated as an adult by our Government.

Make the R rating. Trust in the parents/adults. Its better than them thinking a lot of current MA games are "fine".

To me its so simple. Our Government is backwards and so is the thinking of many conservative Australian parents that would rather pass blame to video games / movies and music than to their own lack of parentking skills.

How embaressing to be told what to do as an adult.
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piguma · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:34 pm�� Post subject:

Its all a moot point. Until the entire classification system in australia receives a total overhaul (which isn't gonna happen any time soon), the possibility of an R18+ classification for games simply wont be considered.
I`ve been arguing for it in just about every form of consumer media for about 15 years now, and the closest that ever happens is, like, 1 low-level senator promising he/she will consider it.
When you look at Australia's "dedication" to the gaming media (we get consoles and games later than most developed countries, even when they are released in english PAL elsewhere) and even the "dedication" to broadband internet (because oyr internet is so fast and cheap *sarcasm*), its obvious that videogames WILL NEVER be even a 2nd or 3rd tier priority for our legislative government.
TL;DR.. They dont care about games, so they wont change the classifications as such.
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GreyWolfJai · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:58 pm�� Post subject:

I agree with all the points above. I also think the biggest problem is that gamers are lazy and (at this point in time) still an unheard voice. Games are now one of Australia's leading entertainment forms and millions of Australians take part. It's time we get heard.

I have taken the time to write to politicians and Atkinson with little to no response. We need air time. I think everyone should write to Sunrise and other news shows to get this issue raised in the media. It's great for a news article to read "Game X has been banned" but the article never goes into why Australia is the one country to have it banned.

Great article guys. Lets hope something gets done and if there is anything I can do just ask.

GreyWolfJai · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:02 pm�� Post subject:

ashlar · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:19 pm�� Post subject:

The biggest problem we have had is that nothing really of any importance has been refused classifications until Left 4 Dead 2. hopefully this spurs the gaming public into doing something, not just about games and the ratings but I think the whole ratings system needs to be overhauled at the same time.
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Lord Haart · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:08 pm�� Post subject:

As I said in the other thread
the only way that what we say
about implementing an R18
rating will be understood, is if someone would
just not mame a refused game
and would instead use their head
and see that rather they shouldn't bother
and should simply not release the game at all in a country that doesn't contain individuals deemed mature enough by our self-elected government to handle any adult subject matter; regardless of how pervasive such content is in the other various media our society so readily consumes.

PS nice article.

piguma · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:18 pm�� Post subject:

LazyAza · Status: Offline Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 29 $poons: 1.00

Brilliantly written article guys, mirrors my own thoughts/opinions of the issue exactly.

I for one believe that one day the system will be overhauled to include an R rating and this whole issue will finally go away and our country will at last be up to date with the rest of the developed world.

I just hope it happens sooner rather than later, I really don't want to spend several more years putting up with this illogical nonsense and having to defend my country from laughing Americans who by the way think we the gamers are just as 'backwards' thinking as the politicians who are actually responsible for all this.

Australia as far as gaming in general is concerned wont ever be truly respected until like other nations our country realizes how culturally and socially significant games have become and how much more they will be in the future. The lack of an R rating says the complete opposite, it implies we are a nation of violent idiots and bad parents incapable of making decisions for ourselves.

renegadesx · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:10 am�� Post subject:

On Atkinson,

Its not like a political stunt with him, it IS a political stunt. He has no reason to do this except gain support from the conservative minority and make them happy.

As for calling Atkinson a f**king c**t. I will defend that, its far from threatening him with physical violence (something I do not support). But opposing something that the people want for no good reason for his own political gain is in every aspect of the words being a f**king c**t.

He knows full well by now that 15 year old kids can legally obtain Fallout 3, Gears of War 2, GTAIV and other games that is questionable of weather they should be playing them depending on the maturity level of that individual (which is where parent discretion should come in).

The R18+ issue is just like the Internet firewall. Conservative politicians want power over the public in a faciast manner, power they cannot be trusted with and the majority do not want them having. Incompatible with a free democracy on every level.

How do they get away with that? By having a support of a very loud minority that thinks their actions are noble. The minority is so loud they get confused as being the majority. This minority is brainwashed into thinking this is all done to protect their children (despite neither Atkinson inaction or Conroy's plans either have any sort of practical way of protecting those children) and are essentially brainwashed sheep shouting at the top of their lungs "4 legs good, 2 legs bad"

As long as those sheep remain convinced, Conroy and Atkinson will continue to make sure the Australian Citizen is as less free as they can get away with and in my view that makes them a pair of f**king c**ts. And yes I will enjoy the freedom of using that language until the language police destroy freedom of speech completely.

These politicians exploit children, they use children as canon fodder for their war on freedom.

Remember conservative politics 101: “the state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people, as long as government is perceived as working for the benefit of children, the people happily will endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation"
-- Adolf Hitler
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hello123 · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:13 pm�� Post subject:

Personally i think that games that get an R rating should be banned.

Watching a movie, and playing a game are two different things. In one you are mearly watching, in the other you are the person holding a weapon, or injecting drugs...etc.

It is because of this that developers should be told there is a line you don't cross and that is it.

The only problem is this sort of argument with mostly gamers will mean that the response (be it form the writers, or other posters) are biased.

And That said our MA+ rating for games allows devleopers to add a whole lot of blood and guts or things like that. So pressing to the next step is not needed.

I mean sex, drugs and overly excessive amounts of blood and gore are not needed to make a great game (nintendo anyone?).

I realise that this will spark flames within the hearts of some on this forum so enjoy ripping my opion to shreads.

And at the end of the day they are just video games and nothing important.

rufati · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:19 pm�� Post subject:

renegadesx · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:07 am�� Post subject:

ObsoletE · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:08 pm�� Post subject:

^ god forbid anyone has a different opinion to you, eh?

tbh, i agree with some of what hello123 said, there are games that deserve to be banned, but furthermore, i believe there are far too many games given an MA when they should be an R. under the current scheme, these should be banned too.

do i agree with the current scheme, and it's missing R rating?
definitely not.
i am most eager for the R-rating for games, i'm just talking about a little consistency amongst rated mediums.
parental discretion is fine, but when the advice given on the box is wrong, or inadequate, then there's something wrong. sure, "over-shoulder" monitoring is the ideal method of parenting, but this is not an ideal world, so parents have to make do with what they can achieve.

i have things to say on The Chaser and Kyle Sandilands too, but this is where it started veering way off-topic, and i'm sure i've said these things before anyway.
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hello123 · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:42 pm�� Post subject:

To renegadesx, i somehow don't see how i am "trolling" the forum, or how i am a "fanboy", Just informing you that a forum tends to have "multiple different opinions"

I mean saying that a company does not need to have "overly excessive" amounts of criteria (blood,durgs..etc) does not mean i am a Nintendo fanboy. The remark was mearly to signify that games which till this day are considered to be some of the best every made, were made with G and PG ratings (and not with lots of blood or guts).

And saying that an "artist" should be able to express whatever they want it to some extend ridiculous. Yeah you can have creative freedom, but don't expect everything to be allowed to be shown to the masses. A prime example is that sick fucking artist who took pictures or naked teenagers (under the legal age) for "art sake". That is the problem "arty farty wierdos", they think that they should be allowed to do whatever they want, especially things against the norm.

Your argument about "creative freedom" implies that i should be able to do "whatever" i want, because i have creative freedom. Well then why don't games have 10 years old prostitutes, or children taking drugs? Why can't people film statutory ****?

At the end of the day there is a line which people/companies should not cross.

The R+18 rating should only be brought in if it means that games like gears 2, gta are moved to an R18+; not meaning that companies can add more sex, or violence because there is now an R rating.

And you say creative freedom, well Australians do not even have the right to freedom of speech (it is not entrenched into the constitution).

Qbert · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:53 pm�� Post subject:

Jellyfish · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:10 pm�� Post subject:

unlachs · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:27 pm�� Post subject:

Personally, i don't see a problem at all with morally reproachable content being included in games, or movies, or any kind of creative medium. Whether it's bad or good, it's a part of real life and you can't make it go away by ignoring it.

let's take a random example, oh say "child prostitution". now, let's say there were such a game where the main character went around killing and banging underage sex slaves like there was no tomorrow. is that really something that should BANNED? Is it horrible? Absolutely. Give it an R rating? Absolutely. But banning, what's the point?

(my example is obviously ridiculous, but i don't see what you accomplish by just banning things outright)
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Qbert · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:00 am�� Post subject:

ObsoletE · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:12 am�� Post subject:

well, to answer those questions from my POV:
no, i don't think that the games that should be an R but are an MA are indicative of the "worst" a game's content can get, i just think that a game like GTA4 or Dead Space should be rated R, instead of MA.

i also don't think that most MAs should be R. there are plenty that are fine as an MA. but having said that, i do think the whole scale is currently rubber-banded too low. there are some games that are rated M that should probably have been bumped to MA.

and for the record, even if an R rating was introduced tomorrow, i seriously doubt that anything already rated would change. mostly because the OFLC take a fee for the privilege of rating an item, but also because there'd be quite a financial backlash against the OFLC from the companies affected.
despite being in a country where retroactive legislation is possible, it'd never be enforced. (re-releases, on the other hand, could possibly be affected.)
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renegadesx · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:05 am�� Post subject:

I want to ask hello123 why exactly he thinks the following games should be banned, including from adults

GTAIV in its original form
Fallout 3: in its original form
Leisure Suit Larry: Manga Cum Laude
Left 4 Dead 2
DarkSector (US version)
Manhunt (impart from just not being a very good game)

These are the games that HAVE been banned, stick to the facts

Remember, he defended the games being banned, the examples of 10 year old prostitutes is a total strawman. Find me an example of that happening and we will discuss that.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me, I just want good arguments for those views, not the same old garbage that looked like it was cut and paste out of a Jack Thompson speech.

Oh and on the moral decline thing, only your opinion of morality has declined, you have set a standard of morality in your head and you see society moving away from your opinion of morality. But that's way off track, that's getting into the realm of philosophy.
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GreyWolfJai · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:14 am�� Post subject:

Games that should be banned under the current rating system (that would be fine with a R18 rating):

GTA4 in original form and current Australian release
Fallout 3
Manhunt

Haven't played the others but LSL has always played on the fact that there is sex in it but never shows anything. I was amazed that GTA4 was allowed in any state to be released in Australia as a MA15+. It has drugs, crazy amounts of killing and really pushes the line on language and sex themes. I wouldn't let a 15 year old play it.

Manhunt in my opinion should never have been MA15+ even after the changes (I played the original). A game that made you a psychopath and were rewarded you for better execution with more gruesome executions. This game really wasn't made for anyone below 18. (Not to mention it was a bad game)

hello123 · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:33 am�� Post subject:

A13x · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:39 am�� Post subject:

But, if we don't kill people in games we'd have to do it in real life ;_;

The "human factor" reminds me of the Carmageddon series in the UK being released with Zombies instead of humans, because it was refused classification when you were able to run over people... and the German version being released with robots instead...

Maybe if we asked nicely all the publishers could release the games with robots instead, so we could have sex with, torture, behead and get our money back from robotic ingame hookers. Left4Dead 2: Rise of the Robots!
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ObsoletE · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:33 pm�� Post subject:

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