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Benza
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 Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ANDYBALLINA wrote: | | Benza wrote: | | You bought into the console wars and backed the wrong horse, we've all done it. Suck it up and move on. |
LOL, when are you 360 fanboys going to get off your high horse. How is owning a PS3 backing the wrong horse? I |
You picked the console that is getting the shaft when it comes to the games released on it. Thats what backing the wrong horse means.
I fail to see how I'm a 360 fanboy, I never said the sony was a bad console, I never said it had bad games, infact I said I wanted to play Uncharted and Infamous and was dissapointed that I couldn't cause I can't afford a PS3.
I’m just saying that if they’re not making money on releasing games on the console then they’re under no obligation to continue making games for it.
I, like Sin have backed the wrong horse before with the cube. Describing the release of games on that console as anaemic would be generous. Even the games that were released multiplatform were released in such limited quantities on the cube making them impossible to find (I spent years literally years looking for Sands of Time on the cube, I still haven’t ever seen a copy of Second Sight on the cube)
It sucks yeah, but you either cave in and buy the competitors console or just suck it up and wait till the next gen rolls around. It’s not about fanboyisim or who has the best console, the quality of the console and often the quality of the games have nothing to do with how successful it was (The cube was more powerful then the PS2 and had some awesome games but still failed) It’s just an inevitable fact of life that in a competition there will always be a loser. Last time it was Nintendo, the time before Sega, this time it’s looking like Sony.
You can fight it as much as you want, scream till your horse that developers are abandoning it and being unfair, say that the other consoles are crap with high failure rates and bad games. Claim that anyone disagreeing with you is obviously the enemy.
Hell I used to with the cube, but it’s not going to change anything.
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troublemaker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Tooki wrote: | | Dude more people own 360's, especially in the Western Market. |
true ... but what % of them are still working? 
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RXWAG
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| troublemaker wrote: | | Tooki wrote: | | Dude more people own 360's, especially in the Western Market. |
true ... but what % of them are still working? |
by name and nature it would seem..... 
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Benza
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| troublemaker wrote: | | Tooki wrote: | | Dude more people own 360's, especially in the Western Market. |
true ... but what % of them are still working? |
The same as the percentage of games that are released for the PS3 
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RXWAG
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'll go get some popcorn..
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troublemaker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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he he .. just stirring
I have both consoles, and like them both - but saying that is a bit boring
That said if a multi platform game comes along, chances are I'll get the PS3 version (provided both versions are the same quality).
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Ka-Pom
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| Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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What I am about to say has been said, but what the hell.
If supporting Sony is effecting overall profits, then why wouldn't they drop them like a rock? Its called business, all they care about is money, and if you think a big bad company is going to listen to a bunch of gamers with their dick in the PS3 you need to think again. Its not like Activision will be missing out, seeing as the other consoles and PC are still running ahead, the PS3 on the other hand is like the asthmatic kid lagging behind, and you should just shoot the thing to put it out of its misery.
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fatpizza
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Can someone please clarify something for me? Since when have Activision actually been losing money by supporting the PS3? And can someone please post a link to the info supporting this?
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MrAndyPuppy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| fatpizza wrote: | | Can someone please clarify something for me? Since when have Activision actually been losing money by supporting the PS3? And can someone please post a link to the info supporting this? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI
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Island_Wolf
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Although I do believe Activision should not just suddenly limit their fan base but this is just a sad face of corporation and how they have to try and make a profit bigger than the previous year. What companies fear is a drop in profit (note that a drop in profit does not mean they lost money, they just didn't earn enough to pass the previous year profit) because shareholders will then have a fright and might withdraw their shares and invest on other companies or something, which is BAD in business. To make those shareholders happy, profit higher than the previous year. Its an ugly world I know but big companies at the end of the day have to hold on to shareholders.
This will certainly be a profitable move by Activision because
Wii Throughput = units sold/development cost = high/low
XBOX360 Throughput = units sold/development cost = high/?
PS3 Throughput = units sold/development cost = lowest/high
Average Throughput = Wii Throughput + XBOX360 Throughput + PS3 Throughput
Ideal Throughput = high units sold/low development cost
By removing PS3, the Average Throughput will be higher, which means more can be developed in less cost when developing for Wii/360 other than Wii/360/PS3 (In the ideal world).
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fatpizza
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| MrAndyPuppy wrote: | | fatpizza wrote: | | Can someone please clarify something for me? Since when have Activision actually been losing money by supporting the PS3? And can someone please post a link to the info supporting this? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI |
Ah the internet. Giving idiots a voice since the late eighties.
So that would be a no then?
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MrAndyPuppy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| fatpizza wrote: | | MrAndyPuppy wrote: | | fatpizza wrote: | | Can someone please clarify something for me? Since when have Activision actually been losing money by supporting the PS3? And can someone please post a link to the info supporting this? |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI |
Ah the internet. Giving idiots a voice since the late eighties.
So that would be a no then? |
Sorry, couldn't resist.
The best I can find is the original article that generated all of this. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article6531367.ece
Basically, he tallks about the amount of royalties they are paying Sony, combine that with the amount of revenue they make and it's a big chunk. Then you have to factor in that in combination with their dev costs for PS3 specifically, which is the unknown.
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Benza
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| fatpizza wrote: | | Can someone please clarify something for me? Since when have Activision actually been losing money by supporting the PS3? And can someone please post a link to the info supporting this? |
The data hasn't really been released, but what reason do we have to doubt him when he says that they're not making money off it?
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Windburn
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | fatpizza wrote: | | Can someone please clarify something for me? Since when have Activision actually been losing money by supporting the PS3? And can someone please post a link to the info supporting this? |
The data hasn't really been released, but what reason do we have to doubt him when he says that they're not making money off it? |
Because all CEOs who earn far more money than all of us put together and yet still try to screw even their shareholder's for all their worth when things go south (let alone their stakeholders) are pillars of truth in a world stuck in the gutters of oppression and deceit. Not having a go at you Benza, but we shouldn't take what these people say at face value, particularly those from gaming companies- they are far too eager to shoot their mouths off to the nearest website.
Read what Island Wolf has just posted. That's the truth of it.
They're not losing money, they're just not able to construct pretty graphs showing that 45 degree incline that shareholders like seeing.
I think alot of you guys are getting caught up in the spin and jumping to fantastical conclusions. This is nothing out of the ordinary in the corporate world; all he's trying to do is attract attention to himself, and deflect negative attention on Sony because he's identified them as one source eating into his profit margins.
Yawn. For anyone who reads the business section of the paper, this is just another day at the office.
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Benza
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Windburn wrote: |
Read what Island Wolf has just posted. That's the truth of it.
They're not losing money, they're just not able to construct pretty graphs showing that 45 degree incline that shareholders like seeing.
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I did read what he said, I also managed to read the entire thing including this bit
| Quote: | | because shareholders will then have a fright and might withdraw their shares and invest on other companies or something, which is BAD in business. |
So if they're not getting the results they want from releasing games on sony, then the share holders pull out there money and Activision get fucked up.
Either way, supporting the Sony isn't in there best interst so why should they?
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Windburn
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | Quote: | | because shareholders will then have a fright and might withdraw their shares and invest on other companies or something, which is BAD in business. |
So if they're not getting the results they want from releasing games on sony, then the share holders pull out there money and Activision get **** up.
Either way, supporting the Sony isn't in there best interst so why should they? |
Because it doesn't matter how you slice it at the moment, we're in a falling market. But as with everything money-related, it's cyclical, and whilst you might be losing shareholders now in the bad times (as everyone is), I guarantee if they pull out now then want to get back on board in the good times, Sony will castrate them for it.
Then what'll shareholders be thinking about management's vision and competence?
Also, don't forget, reduced profit margins is not the same as losing money. If you pull that product, you don't get that profit either, capisce?
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Benza
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I guarantee if they pull out now then want to get back on board in the good times, Sony will castrate them for it. |
Just like Nintendo did with Square right? Square never got to put games back on a Nintendo system after they ditched them.
Oh wait no they didn't because it's retarded.
| Quote: |
Also, don't forget, reduced profit margins is not the same as losing money. If you pull that product, you don't get that profit either, capisce? |
I understand this and I'm pretty sure the head of a major company does too. Infact the guy making these statements most likley understands this concept far better then anyone on these forums.
I doub't he said these comments lightly without actully considering the rammifications such a move would have on the company.
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troublemaker
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be curious to know what the sales figues for CoD 4 are on the PC compared to the PS3.
I would have thought the PS3 would be higher due to lack of piracy.
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Windburn
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | I doub't he said these comments lightly without actully considering the rammifications such a move would have on the company. |
I guess you've kind of hit my point right there. There are no ramifications to consider because the company isn't going to do anything. It's all just fluff to air the fact that Sony's royalties are eating into Activision's profits. And as for your comparison with Nintendo and Square, Sony have far more vested 3rd party interests than Nintendo does (who rely very much on its first party titles). Losing one of the few profitable 3rd parties for Nintendo is much more costly than it would be to Sony.
And let's not forget the bargaining power you're trying to compare. Sony is big enough on the books to account for every company you've just mentioned, at least twice over (maybe three times).
I'm just saying that alot of people are ruffling their feathers over nothing. As I said before, he's just an idiot shooting his mouth off to cause a stir and maybe put his picture in a few articles.
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Windburn wrote: |
I guess you've kind of hit my point right there. There are no ramifications to consider because the company isn't going to do anything. It's all just fluff to air the fact that Sony's royalties are eating into Activision's profits. And as for your comparison with Nintendo and Square, Sony have far more vested 3rd party interests than Nintendo does (who rely very much on its first party titles). Losing one of the few profitable 3rd parties for Nintendo is much more costly than it would be to Sony.
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Go look at the Snes, Nintendo we're all about the third parties back then. Konami, Capcom, Square, etc we're all on the Snes. Sure you had your Mario and Zelda, but you also had your Megaman, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, Castlevanias etc. It was only after Square left and they started the N64 that they scared off the third parties by sticking to console based gaming.
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And let's not forget the bargaining power you're trying to compare. Sony is big enough on the books to account for every company you've just mentioned, at least twice over (maybe three times).
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As of 2007 Nintendo and Sony we're neck and neck with Nintendo just edging out sony at being the more valubale company
(Nintendo 53 billion, Sony 52 billion)
source
I can't find anything more recent but with the continued growth of Nintendo and the not exactly massive sucess of Sony I wouldn't be suprised if the gap was growing in Nintendos favor.
| Quote: |
I'm just saying that alot of people are ruffling their feathers over nothing. As I said before, he's just an idiot shooting his mouth off to cause a stir and maybe put his picture in a few articles. |
And I fail to see how someone who became the CEO of a failing activision in 1990 and turned it into the single most sucessfull third party games publisher in the world is 'just an idiot shooting off his mouth'
The man has proven he knows how to make money in the video game buisness better then anyone, so yeah when he says that his company won't be doing well to support the sony 3, I'm gunna believe him.
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troublemaker
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Windburn wrote: | | It's all just fluff to air the fact that Sony's royalties are eating into Activision's profits. |
I agree with you on this point.
I think Activision see an opportunity to increase the profitability of their PS3 games division (due to lower sales numbers and higher dev times) ... as it is every companies duty to pursue higher profits for their shareholders.
I'm sure Sony and Activision will have an 'open and frank discussion' and they'll come to some agreement.
Many CEOs use the media to force their point, even if they don't intend to go through with the threat.
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SoilMan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | The man has proven he knows how to make money in the video game buisness better then anyone, so yeah when he says that his company won't be doing well to support the sony 3, I'm gunna believe him. |
Hey mate, you don't think that in this modern (failing) world of global capitalism that CEOs got to the top by telling the truth? I have no doubt this guy is a savvy business man - your point highlights this. But to say that he is successful because he knows what he's saying and he's saying the truth are two very different things.
As a few people have noted this is just very clever corporate spin (shift blame for upcoming poorer than expected profit forecasts to a company/console that is holding you back).
| troublemaker wrote: | | Many CEOs use the media to force their point, even if they don't intend to go through with the threat. |
As said, saying that Activision will make good on these threats/warnings/fluff is far too premature. Remember there are likely going to be another 3-5 years of this console cycle so Sony have a lot of time to make up ground. Though no doubt Activision and all other profit-starved third party publishers would like Sony to drop the PS3 price and give them their cashmonies now!
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Windburn
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | As of 2007 Nintendo and Sony we're neck and neck with Nintendo just edging out sony at being the more valubale company
(Nintendo 53 billion, Sony 52 billion)
source
I can't find anything more recent but with the continued growth of Nintendo and the not exactly massive sucess of Sony I wouldn't be suprised if the gap was growing in Nintendos favor. |
Hehe, I should have made myself more clear. That's just Sony's gaming department. When they go out to bat though, they don't approach people with just a subsection of their corporation, they have the full clout of the holding company and related entities behind them as a formidable bargaining chip.
Liken it to Microsoft and XBox- if you, as a publisher were approached to develop for Xbox, you wouldn't dare say Microsoft was only worth about a measly $50 billion either, would you? Heck no, companies like Microsoft and Sony have much value to add to any deal merely by way of their names.
Back on point, it's probably the reason why Activision are whining so much in the first place. Kudos to the posts above highlighting that.
You know what I think is interesting? Activision whinging about losing profits on Sony development, while at the same time spending hundreds of thousands (potentially millions if EA gets involved) on legal fees trying to save face for their stupid commercial decision in dropping Brutal Legend. Sounds like they're getting too big for their own boots, and are starting to stumble.
They better not mess with Blizzard, that's all I have to say.
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They better not mess with Blizzard, that's all I have to say. |
Blizz made sure it was part of the deal when they merged that Blizzard would maintain a completly seperate operations from Activision.
| Quote: | | That's just Sony's gaming department. When they go out to bat though, they don't approach people with just a subsection of their corporation, they have the full clout of the holding company and related entities behind them as a formidable bargaining chip. |
I'm the first to admit I'm no export in shares or anything like that, but at the moment Nintendo shares are worth more then Sony shares. Pretty sure that means Nintendo is worth more (I could be wrong though)
The listing for Sony Corp of JP on bloomberg
At the time of my checking shares are worth 2,470.000 yen.
The listing for Nintendo Co Ltd of JP on bloomberg
At the time of my checking 25,690.000 yen
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