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Fetidchimp
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 Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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viva the amero!! I imagine they will try and drive that north american union thing home now in the economic crisis, for financial security of course....
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Karai Pantsu
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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For the love of... save that nonsense for posting in the Herald Sun comments, odzendz.
I think the more worrying aspect of growing complacency regarding this particular topic, is that of the public at large being ever more ready to accept the government dictating to them what we can and cannot read, view, or listen to.
Windburn, you claim that the blocking of 'illegal' sites won't affect any of us, but that's a pretty reckless claim don't you think? For starters, no one is willing to detail just what is (and/or will be) considered 'illegal' - as many others have questioned, just how long until all manner of political sites are added to the list for being 'seditious'? The potential for this to be used to block access to all manner of information, legal or not, is massive!
Regardless of whether there are ways to undermine this filter(s), the fact that they will be put in place to begin with is a problem.
(Not having a go at you Windburn, just raising the point)
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The Genius
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Fetidchimp wrote: | here is the basic thought process of the government over this
| stephen conroy wrote: | | "If people equate freedom of speech with watching child pornography, then the Rudd-Labor Government is going to disagree." |
so we are all lumped as kiddie porn watchers, which i might add is already illegal on the internet.
I don't think the liberals were that gung ho about it being implemented and were really just testing the waters, but labor has taken the ball and run with it.
I love that quote, if you equate free speech with watching kiddie porn, who on here equates freedom of speech with watching kiddie porn? and why is the labor party dictating these things to us. Why because i think rudd has become slightly megalomaniac, especially after that crap in the australian about telling bush "this is how its going to be regarding the g20", he is a tard in way above his head.
| stephne conroy wrote: | | Senator Conroy says anyone wanting uncensored access to the internet will have to opt out of the service. |
and proven to be lie.........  |
Well said. And filtering out child porn is difficult as people who run child porn sites constantly change the URL for their sites.
Despite being almost universally condemned by the public, ISPs, State Governments, Media and censorship experts, Communications Minister Stephen Conroy is determined to force this filter into your home. Don't let him!
Michael Artkinspn doesn't sound all that bad now compared to Stephen Conroy.
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G3ck0
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly, what websites will get censored? They catch a lot of people that look at kiddie porn, it's not like normal porn is illegal, torrent sites are illegal but I don't see how they can stop people downloading them. So what would actually be banned?
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odzendz
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Karai Pantsu wrote: | | For the love of... save that nonsense for posting in the Herald Sun comments, odzendz. |
Regarding this topic, my post is merely an extension as to “why” this is all happening. If you think it’s just to filter porn then you seriously need to rethink and re-educate yourself on “Governments” who control the populace by any means necessary.
Last edited by odzendz on Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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@sambo110 They are talking anything with illegal content - euthanasia sites, anorexia sites that sort of crap. Problem will be how the thing decides on filtering or who decides what needs to be filtered and where does it stop.
Ihaterudd.com, would that end up getting banned. With his current record of sending around the boys to investigate journalists that have stated something against his governement (they actually did this, a journalist printed some sensitive labor dealings and the next day the boys showed up to take his computers and files), i hold out little hope that only "illegal material" will be blocked.
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Karai Pantsu
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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You can do whatever you want odzendz, I'm not forcing you to do anything.
That's exactley what worries me, Fetid. All manner of websites could be blocked off without so much as a trivial attempt to justify it. Scary thought.
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odzendz
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Karai Pantsu wrote: | You can do whatever you want odzendz, I'm not forcing you to do anything.
That's exactley what worries me, Fetid. All manner of websites could be blocked off without so much as a trivial attempt to justify it. Scary thought. |
Cool.
So then you need to ask yourself "why"? so, you can dig deeper and explore yourself or you can shrug your shoulders and "hope for the best"
We "the people" are screwed.
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STANKY J
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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take the red pill odzendz 
i read recently in some parts of the states if they find any illegally downloaded media (mp3s, vids all sorts) on any storage device they can confiscate all your gear anything that can hold 1s and 0s. pretty intense stuff. hence why i fear a big brother internet blanket.
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odzendz
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Hey look, in the end it’s irrelevant, you live you die and you play some games in between, so let’s enjoy our average lifespan while we still can.
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Fly
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Itachi wrote: |
bahahahah i said that excate same thing to Fetidchimp on msn in the morning. I said i will be moving to New Zealand if this happens. I also agree if Liberals come out and say they will scrap this they also have my vote! |
It would have had to pass the lower house before being imlemented, which means Liberals, Nationals, Greens & Labor (remember, they Americanised it by dropping the u) and at least 1 independant would be to blame for this reaching the stage it has.
| The Genius wrote: | Very true, but what can we people really do?
The fundamentals of a government is to serve its people. But it just doesn't happen much does it. Its more the other way around. Its clear most people don't want this. Just like its clear most people want an R18. But it ain't happened yet is it.
In all honesty we people cant do much in these circumstances besides hope that enough people in parliament oppose this. |
What can the people do, honestly you've thrown out the doozy of calling Rudd a socialist and yet you haven't even thought of organised revolts by the sector and public? Government would then have to listen if ISP's experienced mass customer leavings across the board, if telecommunications companies were then inundated with a lot of now defunct wiring, or companies didn't renew subscription services etc. You get enough people with the will to cancel their ISP subscriptions for a week and spend that week voicing why, getting on the media the government will have to respond and respond kindly because at this point they cannot risk not to. With the economy as it is, how do you think the government will honestly act is ISP's started losing profits and going under as well because of government policy?
Personally, the idea has substance but it lacks in every other category. We've had the art industry brought into the spot light in regards to child pornography and the like and little has come from that by way of censorship on a larger scale, there are no "only pick adult models for nudity" because art is a subjective topic, yet when it comes to other mediums the results are often cut and dry "this is a movie, no breast" "this is a game no sexual innuendos, gore or drug use" "this is the internet no illegal shenanigans" but with that books can flesh out the actions of intercourse with not so much of an eyebrow raised, art is not for "plebs" and I scoff at these notions of skullduggery and people are comfortable with that status quo.
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Windburn
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Karai Pantsu wrote: | For the love of... save that nonsense for posting in the Herald Sun comments, odzendz.
I think the more worrying aspect of growing complacency regarding this particular topic, is that of the public at large being ever more ready to accept the government dictating to them what we can and cannot read, view, or listen to.
Windburn, you claim that the blocking of 'illegal' sites won't affect any of us, but that's a pretty reckless claim don't you think? For starters, no one is willing to detail just what is (and/or will be) considered 'illegal' - as many others have questioned, just how long until all manner of political sites are added to the list for being 'seditious'? The potential for this to be used to block access to all manner of information, legal or not, is massive!
Regardless of whether there are ways to undermine this filter(s), the fact that they will be put in place to begin with is a problem.
(Not having a go at you Windburn, just raising the point) |
As you should  To be honest, I didn't even want to get into that side of it, thought my post was already getting long enough as it is 
What I did mean though, was that prima facie, we *shouldn't* have any issues with what they are blocking. Sadly, this is probably the basis on how this Bill was even passed; their spin on stopping illegal activity being accessible to children.
In practice though, you are absolutely correct; government opportunists with access to the filters will seize on the fact that once the public becomes accustomed to one form of overarching censorship, they'll be more open to the idea of censoring another topic, and another, and another, and so forth.
Soon enough (and this is NOT an exaggeration), we'll be encountering blocked sites in anything from our law studies to art courses, as we tackle politically sensitive issues which do need extensive research into unsavoury topics. I've already written several assignments on abortion and euthanasia law and terrorism, and I would hate to be seen supporting an environment where future students couldn't educate themselves of the same, and develop their own thoughts and opinions of the above.
They're touting it as something against child pornography and making bombs, which, whilst a noble pursuit, does the opportunity cost of a nationally crippled internet service and a filter which won't deter the most driven of people from finding what they want to find, really weigh out?
Absolutely not. I'm infuriated that this is where our hard-earned taxes are going.
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Fetidchimp
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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taking away liberties to protect them, that is a strange concept to me. And haven't the bad dudes and dragon ninja already won if we lose our freedoms.
Let me tell you i didn't learn how to make a bong on a website, i watched other people do it. The first bomb makers didn't learn off a website, the guy i knew that used to blow up toilets and phone booths, he didn't learn how to make bombs off the internet. There was no internet as such. So people who are going to commit themselves to less than savoury deeds, are going to do it regardless of what the internet states, or doesn't.
Child porn, thats fine, as strange as this may sound, aren't child porn sites a way of trying to track them, finding them and busting them, take away the sites and you'll have to hunt them on the back of misdeeds already committed rather than finding the ones checking websites, also will that force them out into the real world more often? This could work in a way they do not want at all.
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Benza
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STANKY J
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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i need a copy of steal this book just for coffee table points
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The Genius
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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I am not a fan of the Yanks' "We Are The Greatest Nation In The World" kind of attitude. But I can now see why they think so.
This is the kind of stuff that will never happen in America. Never in a million years. The American public wouldnt stand up for this kind of crap we are about to get from Stephen Conroy. Because most Americans really respect their Bill of Rights.
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Benza
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| STANKY J wrote: | | i need a copy of steal this book just for coffee table points |
Most of it's actully pretty interesting and kind of funny in a "Fuck the man, get free shit" kind of way, but when he starts getting into how to make weapons to kill pigs in riots then it gets a little... unsetteling.
Also you get bonus coffee table points if you actully stole the book.
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The Genius
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Overall I really have enjoyed reading the great contributions from the various folks. Noteably the ones from Karai, Fetid, Itachi, Windburn and Fly. Really insightful contributions.
Been a great discussion.
Hopefully more folks can be enlightened on this issue.
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Pilliy
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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The good:
No child porn
No beastiality
Maybe they'll screw up so Rudd won't be on the internet
The bad:
Gaming will suck
Half the websites won't work
No torrenting (I download free shows from torrent sites not illegal stuff...)
Lots of downloads will be classed as bad and disabled
Everything else that involves the internet....
If I'm correct the governor general may kick out the "Ruling" in this case prime minister. For the love of god Quentin Bryce KICK HIM OUT
Edit: Her email is governor-general@gg.gov.au
Last edited by Pilliy on Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total
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Buttmouth
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Well. This is it. Now I'm gonna have to see what this "outside world" is all about.
Have you ever tried to use a computer that doesn't have internet access? I might as well spend my time sitting on the floor in the middle of a room with no lights on staring at a white wall. It's that boring.
And slow internet is worse than having no internet at all. When you've got no internet you adapt by doing other things with your time. When you've got slow internet you sit and wait and do everything you'd normally do but 30% to 80% slower and more frustrating.
Argh!!!
/blown gasket Charlie.
edit: why is this in General Gaming Talk?
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Last edited by Buttmouth on Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total
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Zhaz
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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I read in the paper today that P2P is not affected by the filtering, so torrents would be allowed. But whether it remains that way, I don't know.
We should be allowed to think for ourselves. We don't need our Government to babysit us, tell us what we can and can't do, turning into mindless drones, feeding on content that only the Government wants the public to view.
It's a load of crap. With so many cover-ups and rampant corruption in the world today, we need transparency, not to be stuck behind a massive (fire)wall.
P.S. My internet speeds are slow enough, Mr. Conroy
/rant
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Fly
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Zhaz wrote: | | I read in the paper today that P2P is not affected by the filtering, so torrents would be allowed. But whether it remains that way, I don't know. |
Depends on the type they use and where it's just a url block (thus proxy bypass on another port) or if it's a DNS manipulator which instead focuses on the domain name. In a sense, the url block is like blocking a picture in an article where the dns block is like blocking the entire page & subsequent pages stemming from that article.
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Sinthesys
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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To quote Benjamin Franklin:
| Quote: | | They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. |
(A lot more applicable to the patriot act, but still still applicable to the current trend of Australian legislation)
Yeah, censorship is bad, but this is borderline Orwellian. We need to tackle this like the French tackle unsavoury governmental decisions: Mass mobilisation in the streets including, but not limited to the overturning and igniting of cars. The open access to information should be one of our primary rights and the potential removal of seditious material from the public view is an incitement and affirmation of anti-government sentiment in the people.
No grass roots public indifference will reverse this decision, only drastic displays of dissatisfaction will send a strong enough message. Too bad we are a pretty weak country when it comes to a good riot...
And finally, odzendz enough with the conspiracy theories, they make you sound like a nutter, because they are so far fetched and overreaching, its about as far from a logical conclusion as you can get. Next you're going to try and convince us:
| Milhouse wrote: | | The Rand Corporation... in conjunction with the saucer people... under the supervision of the reverse vampires... are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner. We're through the looking glass, here, people... |
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Bunnie
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well, before I'd even read this article I'd written 4 letters: one to Kevin Rudd, one to Nathan Rees, one to Stephen Conroy and one to my local MP.
Although already mentioned, I would once again remind people to visit: http://nocleanfeed.com/
Although I did choose to write my own letter, there is a template there that you can use to fire a letter off at your various ministers.
I'll list some addresses where you should send your letters:
The Hon Kevin Rudd MP
Prime Minister
Parliament House
CANBERRA ACT 2600
Senator Stephen Conroy
Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy
Level 4, 4 Treasury Place
Melbourne Vic 3002
And the NSW Premier:
Mr Nathan Rees,
GPO Box 5341,
SYDNEY NSW 2001
Make sure you send one to your own state MP if that isn't Rees. Don't let this slide by without kicking up a major stink over it. I've heard rumours that Anonymous will be protesting in Sydney, so if you're part of that group try to find out a little more about when and where the protests are (if this rumour is true), and join in.
Please, make sure your letters, emails and protests and polite and peaceful. Get your point across of course, but we want to make sure they listen to us, take us seriously, and respect that we are young adults capable of making our own decisions, and we don't want or need a bunch of guys in suits and a faceless IT department making them for us.
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3mt
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Australia's becoming more and more restrictive. I'm angry that this 'plan' will reduce internet speeds. Aren't Australia's internet speed shamefully slow?
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