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notsofat
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 Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| nikack wrote: | | Publishers need to learn that DRM is not the answer, DRM-free music sells better than the ones that do have it. There will always people who steal things, it's human nature but removing DRM and rewarding people who make legitimate purchases would make more profit. |
steam is the answer
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InvivnI
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Steam games can be easily pirated too. If the code's there it can be cracked I'm afraid. Though Steam does have the advantage of a stricter verification process that would prevent pirated games connecting to official servers.
Personally, I have bought all my games (at least since around 2002), except for CoD4 which was borrowed off a friend. I think I'm probably paying for about three of my other friends who regularly pirate their games. Piracy just frustrates me now, it really is damaging the industry, yet people do it and then complain when publishers are no longer willing to take risks with their games.
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Aftershock
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: |
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If i so desired, i could head out into the wild internet and get myself a cracked version of steam, and an account on that with every game, and download those which i desired. Granted, i could only play on cracked servers, most of which are US/Japanese, but if i was determined not to pay, then so be it.
I'll still be getting this game.
This DRM here doesn't affect me, i've only got 1 PC that could run it anyway. So even if me buying it contributes to sales on a DRM'd product so that publishers think its a good idea, i'd rather have that than what a number of publishers are doing and not publish on PC at all (fable 2, GeoW2) or delay their games (endwar, mirrors edge, gtaIV).
It's a double-edged sword.
DRM makes people want to pirate, so more people pirate games with DRM. Due to increased piracy/lower sales, publishers increase the DRM. Therefore piracy goes up, sales go down, its a swirling vortex of doom.
I think that Digital Distribution is the key here. It removes the cost of putting the game out into retail, yet still allows easy access to the game for those that want to buy it. If this is DRM free, all the better.
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Jarrod
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:04 am Post subject: |
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DRM is literally useless. Publishers need to just forget about piracy and focus more on making their games high quality and affordable.
Bethesda proved this way back when Oblivion was released. They refused to invest into piracy protection as they felt the game had plenty of hype and quality to sell well. Oblivion is so easy to pirate that you can burn a copy of the disk, install from the copy, and run the game from the copied disk all without a single error.
Yet the game still sold through the roof.
Anybody who REALLY doesn't want to pay for the game isn't going to be swayed by DRM. They'll just wait a few hours/days until its hacked and then download it.
I really don't get why publishers don't see this. How can they be so convinced that DRM is helping the sales of their games and helping combat pirating?
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Sinthesys
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| InvivnI wrote: | | Piracy just frustrates me now, it really is damaging the industry, yet people do it and then complain when publishers are no longer willing to take risks with their games. |
Take risks? Damaging the industry? I'm not sure what you mean. I keep hearing about this 'damage', but I see no evidence of it. If by 'take risks' you mean not use DRM, then the people complaining aren't the pirates, as they don't have to deal with it, its the people who are trying to legitimately purchase and use their software without hassles.
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InvivnI
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Sinthesys wrote: | | Take risks? Damaging the industry? I'm not sure what you mean. I keep hearing about this 'damage', but I see no evidence of it. If by 'take risks' you mean not use DRM, then the people complaining aren't the pirates, as they don't have to deal with it, its the people who are trying to legitimately purchase and use their software without hassles. |
By take risks I mean publish games that may or may not generate solid sales. Since piracy is so rampant (and it is, anyone denying this fact is foolish), that pushes the cost of games up, therefore publishers will only produce games that they believe will be a safe bet. I am not a proponent of DRM, I just hate what piracy is doing to the industry.
I agree with Aftershock that digital distribution is the way to go. It makes retail games available within easy reach, I'm a huge fan of Steam for this fact. Their lower prices (depending on the US dollar, of course) and ease of use make them a really attractive option for gamers.
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Passa
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh! Some of you are completely missing the point. It's as simple as this:
DRM protection schemes do not work.
I can't remember a case where a copy protection scheme has actually worked on the PC, besides Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory which uses the infamous StarForce, but the copy protection was so bad that I don't even use my legitimate copy of the game. The word 'piracy' shouldn't even come up here. You can't defend DRM by saying it stops piracy, which means it does absolutely nothing but punish legitimate customers of games.
I'm of the belief that one of the biggest threats to PC gaming is bulls**t DRM like this. People keep saying piracy is killing the PC.. how is bloating only legit copies of games with intrusive malware going to help this? Why won't publishers think outside the box and make legitimate copies of games a more enjoyable experience than pirated copies? (eg Spore's use of shared content, despite the fact it included bulls**t DRM anyway).
Publishers surely must know these DRM schemes do not work and I think they are implemented for another reason, simply to kill any resale value of PC games.
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oracle128
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Aftershock wrote: | | defstar wrote: | | It still sucks. Selling the game for half the price from release will be far more effective at making a profit. Some other game tried it...civilizations or something. Topped the charts in the US. |
That would be Sins of a Solar Empire.
Sold cheaply, absolutely ZERO DRM, and it sold incredibly well.
The only DRM-like thing was that you needed a proper copy of the game to download patches from the servers. |
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Benza
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| InvivnI wrote: |
By take risks I mean publish games that may or may not generate solid sales. Since piracy is so rampant (and it is, anyone denying this fact is foolish), that pushes the cost of games up, therefore publishers will only produce games that they believe will be a safe bet. I am not a proponent of DRM, I just hate what piracy is doing to the industry.
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Piracy has nothing to do with that, it's all about the rising cost of game development. Developers and Publishers don't want to sink millions and millions of dollars into something unless it's going to sell well. They stick with safe ideas cause thats what makes the most money.
Do you really beleive that if people didn't pirate games, then we wouldn't be getting 100 shooters every year? Sorry but you're dreaming.
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Cookie
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Skiller - This sort of thing makes pirate copies potentially more attractive than legit ones.
It's the same way with DVD movies that force you to sit through three advertisements for Warner Bros Movie World etc... before getting to watch the movie you paid for. You want to rush out and get a ripped copy that's got all that crap removed.
Or people with games for their Gamecube & Wii that are not released in their region, and Nintendo go out of their way to punish those people for buying their products... Ummm what do they expect people to do?
Publishers should not put up hurdles for their legitamate customers to jump over. Intrusive advertising, Region Locking or crazy DRM schemes etc.... if it gets all too hard, customers start look at the alternatives.
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InvivnI
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Benza wrote: | | Do you really beleive that if people didn't pirate games, then we wouldn't be getting 100 shooters every year? Sorry but you're dreaming. |
Of course not. But realise that for every game pirated, that's one less unit of sale for the publisher, which is of course passed on to the dev. Piracy is a part of the rising cost of games development (though all those fancy graphical gadgets games must have now are also taking their toll).
To reiterate, I am in no way condoning what publishers are doing with their policies on DRM, I'm merely stating that piracy is not good for the games industry, no matter how you try to skew it.
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Aftershock
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| oracle128 wrote: | | Aftershock wrote: | | defstar wrote: | | It still sucks. Selling the game for half the price from release will be far more effective at making a profit. Some other game tried it...civilizations or something. Topped the charts in the US. |
That would be Sins of a Solar Empire.
Sold cheaply, absolutely ZERO DRM, and it sold incredibly well.
The only DRM-like thing was that you needed a proper copy of the game to download patches from the servers. |
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I said that....
But i didn't know it required a CD-key at install.
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doofus
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| oracle128 wrote: | | Don't be fooled by the hype. Impulse is their buggy version of Steam (it's DRM) and the game requires a CD key at install (also DRM). For a game supposedly without DRM, it sure has a lot of DRM. |
What? A CD-key is classed as DRM? Where did you get that definition from?
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Sinthesys
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Of course not. But realise that for every game pirated, that's one less unit of sale for the publisher, which is of course passed on to the dev. |
Umm, is it? Can you honestly prove that every time someone pirates something, if they weren't given that avenue, they would buy the game? Because having spent a large portion of my youth as a pirater of games, I can tell you right now that's not true.
And how do the publishers measure how much piracy affects their games? well, they can't really, as it's not possible to measure a circumstance that didn't come about. The best they can do is measure the potential sales loss by measuring how many people are downloading it, but as I explained earlier, that's not accurate because its based on one rather large and false assumption: That all people pirating games would buy a copy if said game was unavailable for piracy.
But as Passa has said, this is turning into a debate on the effects of piracy, when the real issue is that DRM does not stop piracy, therefore it is useless and shouldn't be in games.
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Skiller
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| InvivnI wrote: | | Of course not. But realise that for every game pirated, that's one less unit of sale for the publisher, which is of course passed on to the dev. |
I don't know a single pirate who would buy the games they pirate if they couldn't get it for free. The reason they pirate a game rather than buying it almost always comes down to the fact that it's not worth the money they are charging, the rest of the time it's because they dont want DRM to infect their systems. If the game is good and not plauged with DRM then they still buy the game.
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Benza
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| InvivnI wrote: |
Of course not. But realise that for every game pirated, that's one less unit of sale for the publisher, which is of course passed on to the dev. |
No it isn't. Thats a fallacy perpetuated by the publishers. People that pirate games often do it because they woudln't pay for the product. When I used to pirate games it was cause I couldn't afford to buy them. No one was losing any money simply because they were never going to get money out of me anyway.
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151704
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I have an E8400 3Ghz,2gigs of ram, 8800GT i was just wondering could i play Far cry 2 at high settings, resolution 1680x1050
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Aftershock
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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^Yes.
I pirate the occasional game. Not going to defend myself here, but i wouldnt buy it, because i just don't have the money. If i did, i'd buy it, but i don't.
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151704
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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far cry 2 looks awesome i cant wait to get it thanks for anyone that can help me with my question because i am not sure because i have over the recomended system requirements but i dont know what resolution they test it at. Thanks for your help.
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Benza
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| 151704 wrote: | | far cry 2 looks awesome i cant wait to get it thanks for anyone that can help me with my question because i am not sure because i have over the recomended system requirements but i dont know what resolution they test it at. Thanks for your help. |
See
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151704
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: |
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thankyou for your help appreciated
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mrbign
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Pre-ordered. First time I've done that for a game ever.
I can appreciate DRM even if I wished it weren't there because I know some dirty damn pirates who pay for nothing. It's like cheating on tax in that you hurt everyone else in the system for your personal gain. I get some games free but I pay for those I intend to play rather than just have a look at.
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mrbign
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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DRM does stop a lot of casual piracy. If there was nothing to stop people copying their DVDs (game or movie) with Nero and giving it to a friend there'd be a lot more piracy than there is now.
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Benza
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| mrbign wrote: |
I can appreciate DRM even if I wished it weren't there because I know some dirty damn pirates who pay for nothing. |
Those pirates allready have Farcry 2.
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oracle128
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| doofus wrote: | | oracle128 wrote: | | Don't be fooled by the hype. Impulse is their buggy version of Steam (it's DRM) and the game requires a CD key at install (also DRM). For a game supposedly without DRM, it sure has a lot of DRM. |
What? A CD-key is classed as DRM? Where did you get that definition from? |
| ACMA wrote: | | Digital rights management (DRM) refers to the control and protection of digital intellectual property (content), including documents, images, video and audio. |
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