Home
Twitter
RSS
Newsletter
James Peter
26 Mar, 2009

OnLive – Fact or Fiction?

PC Feature | A technical analysis.
Our first reaction upon hearing the announcement of OnLive this morning was to cry scam. Ideas for similar services have been thrown around for years, with the appropriately named Phantom gaming system being a notable example of this. After its unveiling at the May 2004 E3, it is yet to see the light of day in any form.

What OnLive purports to do is deliver a virtual game system to wherever you want to access it. All the graphics processing is done in the cloud (a fancy word for a random computer inside a data-center) which means no expensive hardware is needed to use it and sessions can easily be transferred across any device – pause a game on your TV tonight and continue playing in your browser at work during lunch.

Cool! So why hasn't anyone done it yet? The reason is that there are some important technical limitations, namely the speed of light. If the graphics processing isn't done in your home, then a tonne of data has to be moved great distances. To do that fast enough to not appear as though the game is lagging is hugely difficult. If you press a button to shoot your gun and two seconds later a bullet comes out you aren't going to last very long in most games. Our previous experience developing online applications has given us an understanding of dealing with internet latency and its limitations for response time.

With that in mind we put on our berets and sat down with a pen and paper to see if we could bust this myth.


The OnLive micro-console and controller for TVs.

The OnLive micro-console and controller for TVs.
Close

Response Time

Our first stop was to analyse what response time would be necessary to make a seamless gameplay experience. A general rule of thumb on this for computer interfaces has been around since 1968. Any response up to 0.1 seconds (100ms) is considered instantaneous by most people. Anything above that and the user will notice the delay – it will feel like the computer is doing the action, not you.

This follows on fairly well with what you experience with most gaming systems. Gamasutra has a fantastic article on the response time for recent games. Here are some numbers they found for response time for various games:
  • PS3 system menus - 50ms
  • Guitar Hero III - 50ms
  • Ridge Racer 7 - 67ms
  • Virtua Tennis 3 - 67ms
  • Ninja Gaiden Sigma - 67ms
  • PixelJunk Racers - 67ms
  • Genji: Days of the Blade - 100ms
  • Tony Hawk's Proving Ground - 133ms
  • BlackSite: Area 51 - 133ms
  • Halo 3 - 133-167ms
  • Skate - 167ms
  • Grand Theft Auto IV - 167ms
  • Heavenly Sword - 117-300ms
In the article they mention that games around the 167ms mark start to feel sluggish – Gamasutra was particularly unimpressed with GTA IV's response times.

"This is rather a long response time, and correlates with people reporting the game being sluggish and unresponsive. The delay in firing the gun after pulling the trigger is quite noticeable," they said.

The 300ms response in Heavenly Sword is noticeable too, as shown in this video Gamasutra produced.

In conclusion less than 100ms would be the sweet spot, but up to 160ms is acceptable.


Network Latency & Bandwidth

The two important factors that need to be considered when moving the console into the cloud is the latency (time it takes for a signal to travel from your TV/PC to the remote computer & back again - also known as ping) as well as bandwidth for the data to be transferred.

Typical network latencies are well documented. They depend on several factors including the physical length of the cables as well as the number and speed modems and routers in-between. On cable and DSL connections they are generally less than 100ms to a computer in the same country. In their GDC press conference OnLive CEO (and David Hewlett look-alike), Steve Perlman said the service will work with a data-center up to 1000 miles (1600km) away. Typically, you would expect up to 30ms latencies for this distance.

On the bandwidth front, the issue is video compression. You can't send a raw HD signal over the net without compression otherwise the bandwidth usage would be too high for most households. Video compression helps reduce this data, however traditional solutions have been rather slow – 500ms or more latency to compress HD video. This appears to be the area where OnLive has made a considerable technical achievement. They have custom built a network card that can compress HD video in less than 1ms. This almost wipes out the impact that compression has on the latency and has significant implications for other video processing applications to boot.

Finally, there will be some additional latency to consider at the client end involved with decoding the compressed video, but this could be expected to be less than 5ms on most machines.


The OnLive dashboard.

The OnLive dashboard.
Close

The Result

It's possible. Just.

Moving the console to the cloud under OnLive's architecture could be expected to add under 40ms to the response time. This is 25% of our maximum acceptable response time (160ms) and 40% of our "good" response time (100ms). Clearly some games could get away with this additional response time without too much trouble, but some of the high-end console games would have problems.

OnLive appears to be using entirely PC hardware in their architecture. High powered PCs (and optimised game code) could reduce this latency even further. From the analysis above plugging in existing consoles to the OnLive network probably would not work for many games, even if the manufacturers agree.


Questions Unanswered

The main question we have from looking at their current architecture, is how do game states get preserved? From the demos they've shown, games appear to be resumed instantly, but even in cloud computer, some time is required to boot a game into a playable state on the server. It would be impossible to keep machines in a state ready to play all previously paused games when this is released in a public beta. There must be some delay when dropping back into an existing game.

Rolling out OnLive to other countries is also going to raise some interesting challenges. Given that Australia is 4000km wide you would need to roll out at least 3 data centers for full coverage. Australia's high data costs and bandwidth caps would also come into play. If you played 60 hours in a month on a 5Mbs connection, you would use about 100GB – more than most bandwidth caps in Australia. It would require significant infrastructure changes before OnLive could be rolled out here.


Brag Clips of Mirror's Edge anyone?

Brag Clips of Mirror's Edge anyone?
Close

The Cool Stuff

If it succeeds, OnLive could have some significant impacts to not only the way we play games, but also the web as we know it. Here are a few salient ideas:
  • It could revolutionise the way we play online games. Being able to see anyone else's game in progress and jumping right in transparently is a huge step, not to mention the ability to play a game on any PC, Mac or TV (and no periodic hardware upgrades!) is a holy grail for gamers. It could mean the end of console wars as we know it – third party publishers would love this system, not only for its ability to effectively drive out piracy, but also because it takes away the cost of developing for multiple platforms.

  • It could revolutionise virtual worlds which are currently hugely limited in their ability to download high & render high res textures on-demand. Imagine a version of Second Life where you could create and visit worlds rendered with the fidelity of Gears of War.

  • Finally it could revolutionise the web. Websites currently rely on your computer to display their graphics and respond to your mouse clicks. If this could all be performed on a server, web content could be delivered in a HD game-like environment regardless of the device you are using.
OnLive still has a lot it needs to show, but it does look like it has the ability to live up to the hype. Its possible impact on gaming over the next 5 years can't be understated.

Related Content

E3 2007: Nintendo E3 press conference
12 Jul, 2007 Up late with Shiggy. Updating live.
PlayStation 3: Wait & See
21 Mar, 2007 The logical, conservative side of the story. How boring, right?
Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon - Developer Diary #2
20 Jun, 2003 The second developer diary for the upcoming GC/PS2/Xbox adventure title, written by Charles Cecil of Revolution
44 Comments
4 years ago
i gather this would mean we could even potentially experience lag in single player games now.
i hope it gets there eventually but i somehow can't see how it's going to work n the immediate future when many games still have noticable lag today.
4 years ago
MAXp0wr wrote
If there is any lost or laggy control in my game then there is no way I would use the service. I'm sure I'm not alone.. Am I crazy ?
No, you are not alone and you are not crazy. The "cloud computing" concept as a whole has long been proven to have serious side-effects and crippling disadvantages with something as simple as email and office utilities, such that no real organisation is seriously going to consider it. Let alone a most time critical and hardware intense activity such as 3D gaming. Feel free to quote me: THIS WILL NOT WORK.

The latency claims alone are BS, and this isn't the first time we've heard ludicrous claims about magical compression algorithms (one of them even originating in Australia).

And no, while one would hardly spend thousands of dollars on publicity and marketing for a grand practical joke, the same is not true of scams as past experience has proven they can be quite profitable. Until they get caught.
4 years ago
I just realised there's already a service similar to this available right now, remote play PS3 via PSP. And as I remember the lag even on my LAN was pretty noticable.
4 years ago
Snixtor wrote
If they've genuinely got the technology for that, then I'll believe it could be possible. Of course, Australia still stands next to no chance of getting anywhere with it under its current Internet infrastructure.
I crunched some numbers in my head yesterday, and it's not as far fetched as it sounds, though if they pull it off is another story.

I'll hit up some encoding websites today to see what they think about it.
4 years ago
There's an interesting article on this on eurogamer: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/gdc-why-onlive-cant-possibly-work-article

There's also some shaky cam developer walkthroughs on gametrailers which show them playing lego batman on it. Even in their controlled circumstances I noticed the game freeze up briefly several times...

I just think the tech to get this to work well enough to be acceptable just isn't there yet. The cynic in me says these guys have gone around getting all the patents even though they can't get it into a proper workable system for the large scale, made a big splash all with the intent of getting bought up by one of the big boys and retiring as millionaires.
4 years ago
Benza wrote
Cause I know I like to sink thousands of dollars into apperances at the GDC, interviews, advertising, graphic design etc for a bit of a laugh.
A few thousand dollars spent in promotion can mean hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in Venture Capital money. The "Phantom console" scam did exactly the same thing...
4 years ago
I don't feel that this story is relevant to us here in AUS. We won't see technology like this for many, many, many years. We would need to get our broadband infrastructure in a state that 5mb/s would be achievable in the average household. ADSL2+ comes close, but it isn't reliable enough or available enough (cheaply).
4 years ago
I skimmed the article, so flame me if I'm wrong, seeing as this OnLive bizzo will be run by human beings, there's going to be subscription charges, or - God forbid - a pay-per-play billing system.
4 years ago
I believe bumJab hit it right on the nose! This unfortunately does seem to good to be true and you know what they say" If it's to good to be true it must not be". I believe that both creators of OnLive intentions are to be bought out by Microsoft most likely because of the likeness in name. Think about it if they were to get just 500 million from Microsoft to prevent this from coming out and then turnaround and bring out the xbox 4-Ever (cool name for the 3rd generation xbox right)? I just think this is all planned but if it is indeed a true technological breatkthrough I'll be the first in line to acquire the Mini Console. (which I've also signed up for the beta like 90% of the bloggers here. I'm just glad I live in the U.S and only 100 miles from their main hub so I'll have no problems since I'm running an 18mb/sec connection! Good luck to all and hopefully this turns out to be the begining of a NEW TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGH AND GOOD BYE TO DVDs AND BLU-RAY
4 years ago
Is this a hoax?

The onlive website lists a bunch of companies as partners including nvidia.

Why would nvidia want to partner with a company whose product will result in a drop in its product?

I looked at Ea, Ubisoft, Eidos and Epicgames. No mention of Onlive.

there have been no denials, no evidence that this isn't an elaborate april fools, and that little box looks hokey.


I'd like to be proven wrong.
4 years ago
whether it's real or not, don't think it will matter to australians.

Onlive FAQ wrote
#
Where will OnLive be available?
We’ll be launching across the continental US.
4 years ago
MRKNOWLDGE wrote
I'll be the first in line to acquire the Mini Console. (which I've also signed up for the beta like 90% of the bloggers here.
I doubt any of us let alone 90% have signed up for anything and what bloggers? This is a forum.

MRKNOWLDGE wrote
I'm just glad I live in the U.S and only 100 miles from their main hub so I'll have no problems since I'm running an 18mb/sec connection!
That's great. You spelt your name wrong, guess you didn't know.
4 years ago
Fiction, the download limits in Australia makes this idea a fantasy for Australians.
4 years ago
Skiller wrote
And lets face it the graphics quality will be completely **** with a res of only 1280x720 (seriously, games 10 years ago were REQUIRING higher resolutions than that as a minimum, see railroad tycoon 2 from 1998) and there's going to be compression artifacts on it too, especially in fast action games.
Huh, I have that installed right now and the default resolution is 800x600. I've been playing all my PC games on that resolution for 6 months now, before then 1024x768. All of them are perfectly playable at that resolution.
4 years ago
While this is an amazing idea there is still a lot of issues to be considered. As already said the infrastructure would have to have significant changes. Unless the servers in use happen to be similar to Road Runners they may also have a large issue working out 100,000 games running at once from all different computers. The final issue I can see is security. What if someone happens to hack into the servers? How will they stop any virus attack and any hack attempt?
4 years ago
I still think the main issue is they aren't launching it here.
4 years ago
Do I think it'll work? No, especially not in Australia.

Why I think it won't work in general: to put it simply... I don't believe them. I don't think that they can compress video and then uncompress(?) it at your computer fast enough, for starters. Also I think input lag might be a problem. People put up with a teeny tiny bit of lag in online games, but when you're playing singleplayer you expect no lag (or at least I do).

Why it won't work in Australia: Firstly, I think if they rolled this out here, they'd do it on the east coast first, and while I'm in Sydney, that would leave a lot of other people out. More importantly... there are still A LOT of people who are still using dial-up or slow(256k) ADSL. Faster speeds are commonplace in the US... and they're also a lot more lenient on bandwidth caps.

Also worth considering is that I don't think many game publishers would take this particularly lightly. I doubt what OnLive would pay them would be near what they'd get if all these people were buying the games.

Finally... am I the only one who gets reminded of PowerPlay here?
4 years ago
There's an additional source of latency that you haven't accounted for in your write-up - transmission time. This is the time required for them to actually send a complete frame of video, so that you can see the results of your actions.

If they're claiming 60 fps over 5Mbps, a mere 10kb per frame, that still means each frame will take up to 16.5ms just to be transmitted to you. This is in addition to the ping latency & claimed encode/decode times (and of course the time taken for the game to actually process and render your frame).

There is some scepticism as to the feasibility of compressing a 3.5MB frame down to 10KB in a mere 1ms (especially as you'd have to do it without the benefit of two-pass or bidirectional motion encoding, as is done by any modern-ish codec), not to mention the quality of the result. Relaxing the streaming rate to 30fps could double the bitrate & quality, but at the expense of also doubling the transmission latency to 33ms...
4 years ago
The BBC has an interesting article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7976206.stm

BBC wrote
"We are not doing video encoding in the conventional sense," explained Mr Perlman, dismissing an article in gaming website Eurogamer that said the service was unworkable.

"It's a very ignorant article," said Mr Perlman, who said Eurogamer had conflated issues of frame rate and latency.

"They are independent factors," he said.

OnLive has said it has created a video compression algorithm designed specifically for video games that can encode and compress video into data in about one millisecond.
...
Mr Perlman said it had taken "tens of thousand" of man hours to develop the algorithm.

He said: "First of all it was a postage stamp size screen with no latency over the internet. It looked like the silliest kind of game because the screen size was smaller than a cell phone but nonetheless there was no lag.

"We were running Quake actually - or micro quake as we called it. It was very unimpressive to anyone apart from an engineer."
After years spent refining the technology OnLive has said it was able to make the video window bigger and bigger until achieving a resolution of 1280 by 720 at 60 frames per second.

Technologists contacted by BBC News said that that level and speed of video encoding would not be "beyond the bounds of credibility" but would require custom hardware.

The algorithm was developed on dual quad core Xeon processors, which cost thousands of pounds, but OnLive have said they have distilled it down so it can run on a custom chip which costs "under 20 bucks to make".

Mr Perlman said the chip was "high performance for video compression", running at less than 100Mhz clock speed and drawing about two watts of power.
4 years ago
I think you have forgotten to add the average 100 ms response time for the games themselves. Meaning that will cross the acceptable margin. So I don't think pro gamers will like this much. I still see PS3 and Wii ruling the gaming for quite some time.

I hope I'm wrong though coz this sounds really cool.
Add Comment
Like this feature?
Share it with this tiny url: http://palg.nu/8S

N4G : News for Gamers         Twitter This!

Digg!     Stumble This!

| More
Currently Popular on PALGN
Australian Gaming Bargains - 08/12/11
'Tis the season to be bargaining.
R18+ Legislation
R18+ Legislation
Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Generations Preview
Hands on time with the game. Chat time with the CEO of CyberConnect 2.
PALGN's Most Anticipated Games of 2007
24 titles to keep an eye on during 2007.
PALGN's Most Anticipated Games of 2008
And you thought 2007 was populated.