Is Project Joystick playing you?

PALGN News | PALGN takes a closer look.

Last Friday, BigPond launched an initiative titled Project Joystick which PALGN reported on here. The project involves the public sending in their ideas for a game, from which BigPond (in conjunction with the Australian Centre for the Moving Image) will "give you the opportunity of a lifetime to turn your game idea into reality". They are "ready to invest over one million dollars to help bring it to life!" This text is lifted straight from the front page of the competition website. Sounds great, huh?

However, Alan Downie – an independent game developer and writer for AustralianGamer.com – recently wrote a blog post critiquing the competition after reading through the terms and conditions:

"Bigpond are harvesting IP. If you win, they will take your idea, create a game from it and you will get $20k in Telstra prizes." Mr Downie said. "Whilst I am all for Bigpond and ACMI promoting the 'idea' of game development, I am extremely disappointed that they would create a competition like this that does not in any way encourage or foster the young and upcoming game development scene in Australia… In my view, this competition is a misleading farce, and if it is not illegal to promote a competition with the tagline, 'We're ready to invest over one million dollars to help bring it to life!', it is certainly immoral."

So, what's this all about then? PALGN took a closer look at the terms and conditions to see if we could find anything unsavoury. One point in particular stood out:

38. By entering into the Promotion, the Eligible Entrant (or their parent/legal guardian on their behalf if they are under 18 years old) agrees and acknowledges that (and may be required to sign a document to the effect that) if they are selected by the Promoter as being one of the 10 most creative, innovative, original and commercially viable Entry Ideas (which will include the Finalists) in the judging process in clause 11:

(a) the Eligible Entrant (or their parent/legal guardian on their behalf if they are under 18 years old), to the extent that any intellectual property rights exist, assigns all rights in their Entry Idea to the Promoter

This seems to imply that the entrants of the 10 best ideas will have signed all the rights to their idea over to BigPond – even if they don’t win the competition. Since this sounded a bit strange to us, we asked a representative from BigPond what was going on here and if people could withdraw their entries after reading this article:

"We will hold rights to the top ten entries only," Craig Middleton from BigPond Corporate Affairs, told PALGN. "There's no facility for people to withdraw their entries. We're completely up-front with the terms and conditions, which people must read and accept before they can even enter. Bear in mind that the competition is open to anyone over the age of 5 and that Project Joystick represents the only real possibility - for anyone not already in the employ of a games studio - to get something other than a 'thanks but no thanks' letter for their game idea. If the game turns into the next mobile or online game blockbuster, the winner will have their name broadcast to the world. On the other side of the coin, BigPond would need a lot of people to buy the game to recoup its investment."

Mr Middleton also clarified the motivation for the project; "The concept behind the competition is to give an opportunity to Joe or Jane Public to have their game idea turned into a real game, recognising that in the games industry, music, movies and book publishing industries, you simply cannot knock on someone's door with your good idea."

So what do you think? Is the competition fair? Let us know in the comments thread for this article. The full terms and conditions for Project Joystick can be found here and the competition website can be found here.

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47 Comments

4 years ago

No, its more simple than that.

"Intellectual property is an intangible creation of the human mind, usually expressed or translated into a tangible form, that is assigned certain rights of property" (from the Small Business Encyclopedia)

This is a competition which seeks to remove that property from you, and any rights associated with that property. The entrant is more than likely not going to understand the repercussions of entering.

Spanca

4 years ago

And the sort of people you're characterising as being so naive about their intellectual property are not the sort of people who are actually looking at this as a means of getting their struggling development firms off the ground. If they are, there's a damn good reason why they're struggling.

James

4 years ago

I know from competitions on PALGN that 95% of competition entries are rubbish - people type the first thing that comes into their head. While the competition might be aimed at Joe or Jane Public, the only useful ideas are going to come from people who have spent a lot of time thinking about their entry - probably something they've had in their head for years - it's likely they're already involved in the games industry. Thus the top 10 entries will take whatever few commercially viable ideas there are and remove any rights from the author to develop them at any point in the future.

For a competition designed to give a "leg up" in the industry this would be unthinkable - particularly for those 9 runners up who get nothing out of the competition. Of course, the competition is really a money making exercise for Bigpond. While there's certainly nothing illegal about that, using the competition as a marketing and PR vehicle seem completely immoral to me - and that ACMI is willing to put their name behind it is very surprising.

I didn't say any of this in the article in an attempt to keep it balanced. I think it's important to present both sides of the argument - I certainly understand that there's a lot of people who disagree with me.

Spanca

4 years ago

And I'm one of those who disagree (just to clarify, you know

). Those people you're describing as already being involved in the games industry, who have developed their ideas well, aren't going to be so naive as to think this was a free ticket to being a mainstream developer. If they were so naive, they deserve to remain "struggling". If they're not naive, then they have to suck it up and accept that this isn't a free ride and quit complaining that they deserve a free ride.

Quote

using the competition as a marketing and PR vehicle seem completely immoral to me

99% of competitions are promotional tools in one form or another. You're telling me PALGN gives a whole bunch of stuff away just for the hell of it, with no interest in the promotion of those games or garnering traffic/readers?

Infested Jibbs

4 years ago

The crux of the problem is the 9 people getting totally screwed(among some other more moral/legal issues).

Why take the hard work of 10 contestants and only give one any sort of reward?I don't think people would be kicking up(as much of) a **** if their were ten winners, or 1 winner and 9 runners up with each getting some sort of consolation.

I mean, i still don't agree with the winner being stripped of any rights to the ip they came up with, LET AONE 9 others who have their ideas harvested with nothing, not a damn thing, in return.

I'm mildy suprised bigpond set the line at the top 10 ideas being stolen, they may as well have went the whole hog and snatched every idea.

EvilHayama

4 years ago

If you had a good idea and had absolutely no intention of ever actually doing anything with it, then I don't think it would hurt to submit it. I'm not sure that ticking a box in an online form is enough to sign away your copyright anyway, especially if you didn't win anything.

Anyone who actually wanted to become involved in development would be mad to use this as their way in though, in that respect it's discouraging rising talent, not encouraging.

James

4 years ago

Spanca wrote

And I'm one of those who disagree (just to clarify, you know

You're arguing a different point. I'm saying that's it's wrong to take people's IP rights just by entering ideas into a competition. It's not about people expecting a "free ticket to being a mainstream developer". It's about people casually entering an idea they were thinking about working on at some stage in their life, only to find they'd accidentally signed away all their rights to Bigpond.

I don't even really have an issue with the 1 person who wins the $20k and industry experience - what I do think is immoral is taking the IP from the next 9 people as well.

Spanca wrote

Quote

using the competition as a marketing and PR vehicle seem completely immoral to me

PALGN doesn't really get much out of the competitions other than fostering the community. They don't really bring traffic and they cost a fair bit in postage and man-power (or Luke-power). We don't charge anything for companies to run them.

That's besides the point, though. I don't have an objection to using a competition as a marketing and PR vehicle - but I do have an objection to presenting an opportunity to harvest other people's IP as competition with the reality hidden in fine print.

ObsoletE

4 years ago

James wrote

man-power (or Luke-power)

is there some hidden meaning behind this clarification?

Infested Jibbs

4 years ago

Yeah, it was a dig at Luke's former(current?) days as a front man for Man Power Australia.

James

4 years ago

Jibbs wrote

Yeah, it was a dig at Luke's former(current?) days as a front man for Man Power Australia.

shhh, Luke told me not to tell anyone

Luke

4 years ago

James there is a difference between reality and fantasy, you're stuck in the latter

James

4 years ago

Luke wrote

James there is a difference between reality and fantasy, you're stuck in the latter

Oh, so that was your fantasy was it? I thought you were telling me the truth. I guess I did find it a little... uhhh... unusual (creepy), all those hours you spent describing it to me

Honest mistake.

Spanca

4 years ago

It all makes sense now...

Pilliy

4 years ago

doofus wrote

This is all just for contributing an idea!

No coding, no graphics or sound work, nothing like that is needed.

How much value do you put on an idea?

There is no financial cost for you to participate.

I hate to bring up an oldish post but yea. Henry Ford had the idea of a car, nows are now a multi billion $ market. People with ideas for soft drink, multi billion $ industry. Yes you are right by saying they do no work, ideas can go a long way, which would mean Telstra could make $100 million if it's that good of an idea/game

Spanca

4 years ago

^ But Henry Ford had to actually do something about his idea (and for the record, the car wasn't his idea, his 'idea' was mass production).

doofus

4 years ago

Pilliy wrote

Henry Ford had the idea of a car, nows are now a multi billion $ market.

So Henry Ford simply told someone about this novel new mode of transport he thought of, then sat back drinking tea while watching the millions roll in?

Or was he actually involved in bringing his idea to fruition?

thebigm

4 years ago

At first I was interested in the idea that this promotion offered, and didn't read the fine print (was going to when I was going to actually enter), however knowing of the fine print has left me not wanting to enter at all.

On the splash page for the competition, there is no mention about you giving up your rights to the IP. I'm not really annoyed at anything because I would've read the terms and conditions before entering, however it's the grabbing attention and inviting appeal / concept of this competition and the approval from the ACMI that got my hopes a little too high up.

Anyway, I'll sending my idea to Gooberman...

jecht_raiden

4 years ago

I was going to post about all this when the comp was launched. I just think people should stay away, unless they dont really care about the game theyre thinking of.
If someone is out there and thinks they have a kick-a$s idea and would really love to make their game then please dont submit. You can lose all that is dear to you...the game.

edit: but then again is it not a mobile phone game? and most probably a most basic one at that? (since Final Fantasy games have been on mobiles in Japan and other great, expansive games). The fact that it is a small scale game should be taken into account. But some games have started with such roots so heed the warning people about games that YOU want to make.

3mt

4 years ago

its good if you have no idea or ever plan to write a game from scratch using code

werecow

4 years ago

Personally I'm a bit skeptical of the actual legalities involved.
Signing over your ideas for $20K in "Telstra Prizes" is a bit rich if your idea is good enough to sit in a top ten in Australia.
That would mean that your game idea is good and could perhaps be sold to someone better than Telstra for something better than "Telstra Prizes".

Yes...It is a long shot idea...but was has telstra contributed to gaming?!

Bigpond on demand doesn't count....

In my experience it has tainted gaming....Bigpond is a joke when you're trying to play online...
The plan that i have shapes your speed to 64kbps after 12GB of downloads!

That's a bit rich!

NeoSanity

4 years ago

Spanca wrote

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/suspense/manpower.jpg
It all makes sense now...

Methinks you should be doing the Photoshop work for Vogue magazine.

Or Luke is leading a second more schizophrenic life.

3mt

4 years ago

i think telstra's using this to make money, to sell your idea away for thousands of dollars

joebloggs93

4 years ago

wow, thanks for exposing this point about getting no royalties or credit, i unlike some others who may have been going to enter aren't someone
who just submitted an idea off the to of there head, i have been working on
this idea for a game now for two years with a friend, and i would have felt
terrible if i got no credit or royalties!