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Tristan Kalogeropoulos
07 Apr, 2007

Roundtable - Sexism and Video Games

PALGN Feature | Dude... Check out the pixels on that chick.
This month's roundtable is about sex. That got you interested, didn't it? Sure sex sells, but does sexism? We're aware that many titles have both female and male characters in them - you don't have to hang out in video game land long to learn that - but is it a sexist place to be? Rest assured we're not wanting to look at this in a 'Gender Studies 101' kind of way, but instead a way that is also relevant to all those living outside the confines of those university walls, with their Susan Faludi/Germaine Greer-reading, binge-drinking, pot-smoking, theory-talking populous.

It has been said by many that video games often contain overtly sexist themes and characters. So let's go back to the initial question - is the video game industry, and its its many, varied virtual worlds, sexist? If so, what about it makes it that way? What are some examples that spring to mind and what about them makes them sexist, or otherwise? And if you believe there is a problem, noticing it is just the first step, so what can be done in order for things to change?



Chris Leigh - PALGN Executive Editor

Are games sexist? Personally, I don't think there can be any dispute - they almost certainly are. On one level, this is hardly a surprising revelation; after all, games are toys made predominantly by boys for boys. In fact, video games are so obviously sexist that a more pertinent question would perhaps be: what does such discrimination mean for games, and the industry as a whole? And the answer is not a pretty one.

For some time now, journalists and industry commentators have agonised and chewed over the same conundrum: how can games receive greater social acceptance? How can games show they've matured, to a point where they can stand tall next to other established mediums, such as film? Deeper and more complex storylines, cinematic presentation (particularly in cutscenes), multi-faceted characters; these are all valid solutions. But how about finally creating a female lead in a game who can be strong, intelligent, and charismatic, all while shooting down a Tyrannosaurus Rex in something other than the tightest pair of shorts she could lay her hands on? It would surely help in gaming's quest for wider acknowledgement.

Yes, Lara Croft is constantly upheld as an example of progress, but she's a weak icon for womanhood. With her hugely unrealistic body shape and revealing attire, Lara is a fantasy figure for males and little else, even if she does possess a gift for handling firearms. The saddest thing of all? As she is virtual, Lara could have fulfilled any role, rather than just being relegated to that of a sex object. Admittedly, she is one step better than the inexcusably wimpish Peach, but not by much. Gaming's best stab at a strong, independent icon of womanhood? Fahrenheit's Carla Valenti. That is, until she ended up getting her kit off for Playboy.

In an age when an increasing number of women are playing games, the gaming industry needs to grow up when it comes to gender representation, and fast. Otherwise, it can forget the wider recognition it craves.

Fahrenheit's Carla Velenti. A shining example of how to create non-sexist game characters?

Fahrenheit's Carla Velenti. A shining example of how to create non-sexist game characters?
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Mark Marrow - PALGN Writer

I think that sexism is a really tough subject to define in video games, and one that people generally misperceive as being offensive despite games presenting various art forms that have been acceptable way before gaming begun. In some cases, many people feel that having females in revealing clothing is in one part sexist, but honestly it is merely an art form, and a way of showing the beauty of the human body. I think there’s a point where you can portray females as being sexy and not hurting their representation compared to how females are dressed in a way to be considered objects for viewing pleasure.

It’s difficult to deny that games are a way of expressing your imagination, and that video games are indeed a new-age art form – at least as the evolution of gaming continues to boarder towards realism. And much like any art there are variations to styles, of which are used to provide a feel, or often a persona for your characters – without expressing how certain characters are suppose to be represented then it’s difficult to immerse people or make a game believable. So, if a game decides to have female character wearing nothing but a thin cloth covering their parts then so be it. As long as the game is able to distinguish its characters throughout, and doesn’t steer the attention from the game to solely on their tits, arse or amazing six-packs, then there shouldn’t be any reason to unfairly call-out certain games as being sexist.

Though, on the other side, you have games that feature females with similar outfits, but also belittle their presence by shamelessly focusing on certain areas of their body that have no relevance to story progression, or the game itself. I think a great example of such a game would be BloodRayne - where you have what is suppose to be an intelligent and strong female, who is often portrayed as a flimsy, playboy bunny where the focus generally moves to the jiggling of her breasts. That is sexism, and so is the representation of females in games such as Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball. A game like Tomb Raider though, I don’t think the game has ever derailed to the point where the focus shifted from the story to Lara’s breasts (as big as they may be). It’s unfortunately when such games as Tomb Raider are unfairly criticised largely due to the fact of how she dresses, even though she’s never portrayed as a sexual object or her appearance is never the sole focus of the games. Lara should be seen as a role model for her representation of being a strong and independent woman rather than the helpless, fragile woman that relies on a strong man to save her.

Then you’ve got more obvious examples of sexism in games such as The Guy Game, BMX XXX, the GTA series and various other games such as Silent Hill 4 where females are regarded as mere sexual objects. The Guy Game and BMX XXX purely because of the sexual content, GTA series due to the way women are represented as whores and no high standings, and finally a game like Silent Hill 4 since you’re rewarded with a sexy lingerie outfit after completing the game after a set a mount of time (such incentives aren’t new, and just further belittle the purpose of having a female character in the game).

Sure, sexism is in games, and it’s just going to continue to increase as the industry grows, but I think there’s a fine line shown in what defines games as being sexist and others that are unfairly judged.

We wonder if we'll ever see the day when an article on sexism in videogames doesn't feature Lara Croft. Oh, by the way, today's not the day.

We wonder if we'll ever see the day when an article on sexism in videogames doesn't feature Lara Croft. Oh, by the way, today's not the day.
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Neville Nicholson - PALGN Writer

In the beginning, God created the... Sorry, wrong intro.

In the early days of gaming, video games were designed by men, for men. Specifically, young men – young men with hormones and sex drives that would make Casanova look like an impotent coma patient. And probably the only reason these early games didn’t feature more in the way of scantily clad ladies was that the primitive graphics wouldn’t allow such eye candy for our primitive minds.

Fast forward to today, and as the visuals have become more and more alluring, conversely, more and more women have been bitten by the gaming bug. This can be partly attributed to the medium having become more socially acceptable, but primarily due to the fact that developers have been slowly coming to terms with the female psyche and how it relates to their hobbies and activities.

Whilst most men prefer violent, competitive titles (Gears of War, Halo 2, etc), women prefer social interaction, resource collection and management (The Sims, Animal Crossing, etc). It’s the Hunter-Gatherer instinct at work. There are now far more games that are able to be enjoyed by women than back in the 80’s, when a developer’s idea of a “game for girls” was giving PacMan a bow and calling him “Ms.”

This can best be illustrated by the phenomenal success of World of Warcraft, as the game features epic battles and heroic characters (which appeals to men), there is also a huge amount of item collection and social interaction. In a similar vein, one of the reasons the Spiderman films have been so well-received is that there are equal parts action and romance/character development. The industry is slowly learning that it’s wise to try to appeal to as broad an audience as possible – and not squarely targeting the lowest common denominator.

Take a look at the latest Australian sales charts, and you'd be hard pressed to find a single game that features anything the average consumer would define as "overtly sexual themes," and at least 3 that can be enjoyed equally by men and women - The Sims 2: Seasons, Final Fantasy XII and Animal Crossing.

Whilst there is still the odd game that is shamelessly targeted at men looking for a cheap thrill (The Guy Game, BMX XXX, Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball), these games are often derided – ironically enough, not by women or feminists, but by male gamers who see through the façade of blatant sex appeal to the bubbling cesspool of mediocrity beneath.

As with all aspects of life, gender empowerment is about choice – whether it be the choice to be a stay-at-home mother, or go out and have a career… to choose Animal Crossing or Manhunt… to play a sexy dark elf in an MMORPG or use your feminine wiles to “encourage” your partner to put the controller down for the night.

You go, girls.


Tristan Kalogeropoulos - PALGN Writer

I think too often we view sexism through an extremely restricted lens, with the idea that it's only something that those with more than one X chromosome are the focus of. Restricting people based on their gender or sex is something that occurs on many levels and over both the sexes. The video game world is rife with examples of sexism, from the vacuous bikini clad-dress up dolls in DOA Xtreme Beach Volleyball to Princess Peach and her passive and continuous need to be rescued. It’s not only female characters that are this one-dimensional. Look at the archetypal action hero. From Gears’ Marcus Fenix to any number of game’s lead male characters. Their ridiculous tough guy talk, uncaring attitude and their mammoth sized biceps show that men are also boxed into an archetypal package for gamers to gobble up. In reality each and every single one of us has both feminine and masculine aspects that make up our personalities. Few games reflect this in their characters though.

I partially agree with Mark’s point in that the focus on aesthetics within videogames does not amount to sexism. Simply because a person, or in this case avatar, within an artistic setting is portrayed with a certain body type it does not make their representation sexist. It’s when this is the sole defining characteristic of them that this is a problem, having them in the game for the simple purpose of them being ogled at.

Video games may have undergone an immense evolution in terms of their technical ability to visually convey a story, however for the most part the complexity of their narratives are firmly rooted in fairytale like character development. Princes rescuing Princesses is still the dominant complexity of our gaming stories. This needs to change.

There have been some great examples of video game characters that have been created as full and complex individuals, which is essentially the opposite of sexism. Alyx Vance of Half Life 2 or Beyond Good and Evil’s Jade are indeed shining examples of how to both accommodate appealing visuals and also create incredibly multidimensional characters. Both showing feminine and masculine aspects of their personalities. Leon of Resident Evil too, is a character who is relatively complex and does not have his masculinity dial on 11 with his feminine characteristics turned down to zero.

Many argue that the industry requires more input from female game designers however, as nice as this would be it is not the complete answer to the problem. Put simply it needs to grow up. And it has come a long way, especially in recent years, but there is still a way to go. As storytelling and character design mature along with the technology so too, I hope, the sexist aspects of the games we play will soon become a rarity rather than the norm.


According to Gears creator CliffyB, Marcus Fenix is a non-archetypal character.

According to Gears creator CliffyB, Marcus Fenix is a non-archetypal character.
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Phil Larsen - PALGN Writer

Sexism isn’t a particularly major problem in video games. Even in titles like DOA, it’s tough to logically find a reason how one could call it sexist. Women running around in skimpy clothing - what’s the crime here? Men enjoy looking at half-naked women, and some women enjoy being half-naked to please men. No big deal. If you’re honest with yourself, and honest with whoever chooses to take part in the game’s development about the purpose and appeal of the game, then there shouldn’t be a problem. Don’t be confused by the prefix “sex” – sexism isn’t solely concerning sexual references, it’s about all gender issues. Even if one were to make the argument that the lack of story and character development in DOA will subsequently portray the women as objects, then the same argument can be made about something like Gears of War. Cole is a badass macho Gear who runs around killing stuff while making train noises. How typically male. Does the game ever attempt to portray his cultural values, intelligence level or opinion on society? No. Each game has shown a limited view on each gender, so are we supposed to sit around and complain about sexism? Hardly. The attributes of sexiness and a strong, deep character aren’t mutually exclusive.

Don’t sit there and wonder about the offence you may be causing to a non-video game playing population. Non-gamers who complains about Tomb Raider or DOA being sexist aren't exactly a credible source for an argument. How about they ask the opinions of the extremely talented female developers and actors who took part in the process and enjoyed contributing to the game’s creation? I’m constantly offended by stuff I’ve seen in print media, articles like “What a guy is really saying!” (implying that they lie to women to achieve sex) or “Top tips to make a guy go wild in bed!” I don’t write in and complain, I just don’t read it. These select groups of writers are conveying what they believe is entertaining to their target market, which offends some people, and conversely some developers are making a game primarily featuring sexy babes to appeal to their target market. It’s going to offend some people too. Everyone is offended by everything. If something like The Guy Game is sexist, it’ll be towards males, because any objective analysis will easily find females to be the superior gender for opting not to make such a shitty game.

We can enjoy each game for the reasons it has been developed. Not every game needs to cover all bases and pump politically correct nonsense from every pixel to make it socially acceptable. Sex and specific image portrayal are accepted aspects of life in all other media, so why can’t it be available in video games? If playing a game to look at digital boobs isn’t your thing, then don’t buy it. I wouldn’t.

One final point regarding Chris’ comment: video games crave wider recognition, do they? They won’t achieve it without eliminating false gender representation? Do they want to achieve wide recognition as a valid media form? On TV the other night, I saw an ad for Pussycat Dolls Present: Search for the Next Doll, a show involving women parading around in skimpy outfits singing about how they are hotter than some guy’s girlfriend. During a child-friendly timeslot. TV is the widest form of media there is, and you want video games to achieve this kind of recognition? Count me out.

___________________
It's a broad topic indeed, which, as our varied responses have shown, spawns a smorgasboard of opinions. Whilst there will never be any firm answers, and you could indeed devote a whole university subject, or even thesis to the topic, it is entirely worth discussing the subject of sexism in video games.

We're aware that all of the current staff on PALGN are of reasonably middle class male persuasion, so our opinions may be off in a completely different direction from others in the world. That's why we want to hear what the readers have to say on the topic in the forums. Get posting!

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33 Comments
2 years ago
That was quite and interesting read.

Phil wrote
Cole is a badass macho Gear who runs around killing stuff while making train noises.
How can anyone not love Cole ? Can't stop stop the Train baby!
2 years ago
slapshakle wrote
That was quite and interesting read.

Phil wrote
Cole is a badass macho Gear who runs around killing stuff while making train noises.
How can anyone not love Cole ? Can't stop stop the Train baby!
Great read.

Also:
"Can't stop the Cole train baby"

You haven't kept your Gears of War quota in check haven't you? icon_smile.gif
2 years ago
I like Cole just fine, he's rad.

For reference, if anyone hasn't seen it, this is the guy who plays Cole. One of the best advertisement/sketch series ever made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94
2 years ago
I cant believe no one thought of metroid, didnt anyone remember finding out that samus was female?
2 years ago
Tom101007 wrote
I cant believe no one thought of metroid, didnt anyone remember finding out that samus was female?
There are some hot fanart of her. Damn! icon_redface.gif
2 years ago
Phil wrote
I like Cole just fine, he's rad.

For reference, if anyone hasn't seen it, this is the guy who plays Cole. One of the best advertisement/sketch series ever made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94
A.W.E.S.O.M.E
2 years ago
interesting discussion.

there are some good points, and there are some that i don't agree with, but overall, quite an interesting read.

i do find it interesting though, and Phil touched on this to some degree, that some things can be considered sexist, but when the opposite occurs, it's not mentioned. things like FHM Magazine and Cosmopolitan magazine. both contain models in skimpy attire for the pleasure by an audience, but why is FHM considered sexist for having females in their pants, but Cosmo, with male models in theirs, is fine?

i guess it's simply a sign of our environment. males were (and arguably, still are) the dominant gender in most aspects of society that something opposite to this is untouchable.

what's my point?

i don't really know.

i also find it interesting that Lara Croft is considered sexist, when the same attributes (attractive, smart, able to handle herself in times of trouble) is considered a strong female role-model in Film and TV (Buffy Summers, Sydney Bristow, Veronica Mars, Samantha Carter, Kate Austen etc). i suppose a male fantasising about a real person is better than a male fantasising about a completely fictitious image.

imo, Alexandra Roivas deserves a mention.

EDIT:
was looking for this comic earlier, but couldn't find it then. found it now though, and i think it's quite brilliant, and quite topical now, it seems.
Linky
2 years ago
Quote
The industry is slowly learning that it’s wise to try to appeal to as broad an audience as possible – and not squarely targeting the lowest common denominator.
I didn't understand what Nev was saying there. Don't they go for the lowest common denominator because it appeals to the most people?

Funny that Tristan mentioned Leon from RE, as soon as I read that I thought of Ashley from RE4, who as a character kind of undoes some of what Capcom had previously done to be 'anti-sexist'. Kind of the opposite of Peach in some of the more recent Mario games as I understand. I guess this is just me disagreeing with certain aspects of people's opinions.

Finally, I feel it should be clarified in the article that only the ads for the Pussycat Dolls show are shown in child-friendly slots, the show itself is on kind of late (as far as primetime goes). And veering off topic, it's a sad state of affairs when The CW takes a female-empowering (not to mention unbelievably intelligent and witty) show like Veronica Mars off for a few weeks to show the aforementioned debauchery, and it completely destroys the former in ratings. Why are people so stupid?
2 years ago
I still get laughs here and there when I'm playing Gears online and Cole says something totally random. Easily the best character in Gears.

Anyway, that was an interesting read. The examples used were some very good ones too, I thought. I would have never given Leon a thought when trying to come up with a male game character that wasn't stereotyped, so that was good. Also props on the mention of Jade from Beyond Good and Evil and Carla from Fahrenheit. Two absolutely brilliant games that were perhaps even better due to their characters and the development of them. With regards to Fahrenheit, you could also use the male characters from that as an example of male characters that aren't really stereotyped.
2 years ago
Neo.Sanity wrote
slapshakle wrote
That was quite and interesting read.

Phil wrote
Cole is a badass macho Gear who runs around killing stuff while making train noises.
How can anyone not love Cole ? Can't stop stop the Train baby!
Great read.

Also:
"Can't stop the Cole train baby"

You haven't kept your Gears of War quota in check haven't you? icon_smile.gif
He says both. So ner ner *pokes out tounge*

... Yes, Im that mature.


Phil wrote
I like Cole just fine, he's rad.

For reference, if anyone hasn't seen it, this is the guy who plays Cole. One of the best advertisement/sketch series ever made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94
Oh man, that was awesome.
2 years ago
Discussions such as this always make me think of Benny Hill.

I don't really have an issue with the way women are portrayed in games. It all depends on the game.

If I'm going to be staring at a female characters ass for 20 hours or whatever, I want it to be a damn fine ass.
2 years ago
Nova Prime wrote
And veering off topic, it's a sad state of affairs when The CW takes a female-empowering (not to mention unbelievably intelligent and witty) show like Veronica Mars off for a few weeks to show the aforementioned debauchery, and it completely destroys the former in ratings. Why are people so stupid?
Amen to that brother. I love Veronica Mars such a shame to see it still struggling for ratings. Still at least Channel 10 is still airing season 3.

As for sexism. I'm just really sick of huge, muscle bound space marine characters with attitude and nothing else. Epic's games are notorious for such characters, as are IDs. The Masterchief does get somewhat closer to a realistic body shape though and it looks like some interesting identity issues of his past will be explored in Halo 3 which is great.

I have high hopes for this generation of videogames though, there seem to be a lot of narrative heavy titles on the way that seek to portray more complexed, balanced characters.
2 years ago
Charly wrote
If I'm going to be staring at a female characters ass for 20 hours or whatever, I want it to be a damn fine ass.
I don't want to be staring at anyones ass for 20 hours, but that's just me.

Quote
...use your feminine wiles to “encourage” your partner to put the controller down for the night.
^Pfft stuff that! You want some action? Try getting the contoller out of MY hands.
2 years ago
Nova Prime wrote
I didn't understand what Nev was saying there. Don't they go for the lowest common denominator because it appeals to the most people?
By "lowest common denominator," I meant guys who are more interested in the effect of advanced physics techniques on Lara Croft's breasts than on their application to more intelligent puzzles.

When, clearly, both are equally as important. icon_wink.gif
2 years ago
So I read that whole article, and am still not sure what the point was?

Is sexism in games a good thing or a bad thing?

note: Games != Real Life.

The thing that I like about sexism in games, is it plays a vital role in most steriotypes and cliche's. The handsome prince has to save the beautiful princess. Its been a sucessful storytelling backbone since the dawn of time. Why? Because its a GOOD STORY.

Mad props to mentioning Jade from BG&E. Possibly the coolest Female protagonist ever. Just goes to show a well developed character can still have a nice rack, ass, and bare midrift so the boys have something to look at.

Mention should also be given to the major overhaul Lara Croft's personality and character got in TR:L. Yes she is still the hottest pixels in gaming, but now she (finally) has a heart and soul as well!

Sexism is still rife in games. It always will be. They are just getting better at shaping it for a more balanced audience.
2 years ago
HeDanny wrote
Is sexism in games a good thing or a bad thing?
That wasn't the point of the article. Sexism is bad, no matter which way you look at it - it's defining whether or not video games are actually blatantly sexist. Differing opinions on the matter is what the article was about.
2 years ago
Actual comment on the article?

Hilarity at the idea of a roundtable on 'sexism in gaming' that didn't include women. Very, very meta.

The stuff about "art form" isn't fooling anybody, either. If all the game designers cared about was "art", wouldn't we be seeing Rubenesque naked women? Hard-bodied young male heroes straight out of a gay men's porn mag? It's not about art; jubbly engines are not there to mimic the clean lines of a life drawing.

Mighty Ponygirl has a post up here that you might want to take a look at.
2 years ago
He is right because he agrees with me ... I do not agree with him, so he is an idiot

Yep. Quality blogging rite there. You have to love self righteous preachers on any topic. No matter how well informed or researched their content they always manage to come across as entertaining. Credibility, on the other hand...
2 years ago
This was an interesting read, and the reason why I, a long time lurker, actually registered to discuss. Its an issue close to my heart, being both female and a gamer.

There is undoubtedly sexism in computer games and I think the reasons for this are pretty complicated and probably not just limited to the fact that games are toys “made by boys for boys”, as one writer put it.

To begin with there is a lack of female representation in the industry – and not just programmers and designers either. This article, worthy as it is (and as much as I find myself in agreement with most of it) was completely written by men.

At the GO3 conference, which I was lucky, to attend recently, all the speakers were male, the organiser was male and probably 75% of the delegates were male.

Yes, women are buying games more and more and I guess we can, over time, only hope that this filters through to the industry.

Obviously this isn’t the only reason we have such blatant sexism in games, after all one of the designers of “Playboy: The Mansion” was a woman, but I think this sexism, combined with gender conditioning and environment factors combine so that most women end up avoiding games.

Its getting better now, but I recall walking into EB 5 years ago (or Games Workshop last week) and getting stares and whispers from the completely male shop assistants and customers. This discourages female gamers as much, if not more, than the sexist games out there.

Just as an example of how prevalent sexism is around (but not necessarily in) games, I study games programming and design at Uni and on my first day of classes this year told my tutorial (all male except me) what my favourite game is (its Planescape: Torment by the way). One guy immediately laughed and said “That’s a girls game!” and another – obviously the lowest common denominator – went into a diatribe about how ‘girls’ don’t play games or like computers and what did I think I was doing here?!?

I hate this concept of ‘girl’ games and ‘boy’ games. There is no reason why The Sims isn’t enjoyable to both sexes and I like Animal Crossing just as much as I like Gears of War or thrashing my brother at Halo 2. I hated “Playboy: The Mansion” but only really because I thought the gameplay mechanics were awful. When I picked it up out of the $10 bargain bin at JB HiFi I was pretty sure it was going to be about naked women, after all.

Anyway, long first post J but I find myself pretty much in agreement with Tristan’s statement: “Many argue that the industry requires more input from female game designers however, as nice as this would be it is not the complete answer to the problem. Put simply it needs to grow up.”
2 years ago
Fall_From_Grace wrote
and probably 75% of the delegates were male.
are you counting the booth-babes? take them out of the equation and that percentage rises to probably closer to 90% imo.

it does lead to another analogy i hadn't thought of though, the gaming industry resembles the motor industry in many ways, but especially on how it advertises itself to the outside world.

gaming conferences and motor-shows.

both primarily male domains, with girls in skimpy clothes to entice them.
2 years ago
mythago wrote
Actual comment on the article?

Hilarity at the idea of a roundtable on 'sexism in gaming' that didn't include women. Very, very meta.
We were fully aware that all the staff contributing to the article were male and the possible implications that may have had for the it. If you read the last paragraph you'd have noticed that. The idea of the roundtables is not always for us to give our 'all knowing opinion' (especially when subjects of such a complex nature are involved), but are instead designed to stimulate discussion on topic and that's what the call was for in the conclusion of the article. Whilst being aware that we are male you can see, via our responses, that we we are also have our own unique takes on the topic which are also either directly or indirectly coloured by discourse with those of the opposite sex. An us versus them mentality does little to solve the problem or improve the situation.

For the record I actually agree with the blog post re:Ashley being an extremely poor character in RE4. It was an entirely sexist character design. I was merely pointing out that it was one of the few times we seen a male protagonist who wasn't pumped up on so much testosterone he was leaving snail like trails of it as he travelled through each scenario.
2 years ago
ObsoletE wrote
Fall_From_Grace wrote
and probably 75% of the delegates were male.
are you counting the booth-babes? take them out of the equation and that percentage rises to probably closer to 90% imo.

it does lead to another analogy i hadn't thought of though, the gaming industry resembles the motor industry in many ways, but especially on how it advertises itself to the outside world.

gaming conferences and motor-shows.

both primarily male domains, with girls in skimpy clothes to entice them.
No, the 25% of females I saw was referring to the delegates only.
I didn't actually see any Booth Babes at the Conference itself and only spent about 10 minutes in the Expo. I didn't see any there either. I hope there weren't any as it just seems sort of pointless and degrading to have women in skimpy outfits handing our pamphlets.

The maturity in the industry will probably only come when these attempts to appeal to the average 15 year old male gamer cease.
2 years ago
It would have seemed so false to get a girl to contribute to the roundtable. Having a girl for the sake of having a girl would be lame.

The way women are portrayed in video games is changing, but there is always going to be over-sexed male fantasies or feeble little princesses in games. They have their place. Heh. But it is nice to have a bit of variety in the characters we play, both male and female. It isn't just women that are portrayed unrealistically in games, I mean...look at the men!

As for the whole girl gamer thing...
I dislike the term 'girl gamer'. Its all a little girl-power for me. I think chicks will be recognised in gaming more, when they take themselves more seriously instead of writing into Hyper and saying "Oh Woo! *giggle* I'm a girl gamer! Woo!" Like it is something special.

I still look at the video games industry as being in its infancy and, like film, the way all people are portrayed will change. I mean, derogative stereotypes still seem prevalent in games today - its not just women copping it.

Fall_From_Grace wrote
I hope there weren't any as it just seems sort of pointless and degrading to have women in skimpy outfits handing our pamphlets.
I honestly don't get why it is degrading to women. No one is forcing the girls to parade around like that. It is taking advantage of men, so more degrading to them in my opinion.
2 years ago
Tristan wrote
Whilst being aware that we are male you can see, via our responses, that we we are also have our own unique takes on the topic which are also either directly or indirectly coloured by discourse with those of the opposite sex. An us versus them mentality does little to solve the problem or improve the situation.
Tristan, getting defensive does little to solve the problem or improve the situation. The point, again, is that it's more than a little ironic to see a "sexism in gaming" roundtable that doesn't include women. 'discourse with those of the opposite sex' is not really discourse BY those of the opposite sex, no?

Please understand I'm not criticizing you for bringing the issue up at all; but if you look at MP's blog, and other discussions BY women gamers, there's a reason women are so touchy about this, and it's not because we wish we looked like night elves.
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