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Luke
24 Feb, 2006

PALGN speaks to the OFLC

PALGN Interview | On Marc Ecko, an R rating for games and more.
The Office of Film and Literature Classification has recently received significant negative feedback from the gaming community in response to banning Marc Ecko's Getting Up in Australia. It was a landmark decision, made the Classification Review Board, on the basis that the game contained “detailed instruction in matters of crime”.

We decided to put a few questions to Des Clark, the director of the OFLC, to see if we could give you a better picture of what this classification decision would mean for the future of gaming in Australia.


PALGN: Could you please give us a brief overview of the process involved when classifying a video game? What aspects of the game do you look at and how is the final classification decided on?

OFLC: First it is important to understand some legal and administrative background.

Under Australian law, no computer game can be sold or hired in Australia unless it has first been classified by the Classification Board. These classifications are G, PG, M and MA15+. These classifications mean “General” (very mild content), “Parental Guidance recommended” (mild content), “Recommended for Mature Audiences” (Moderate content) and “Not suitable for people under 15 – under 15s must be accompanied by a parent or adult guardian” (Strong content). Computer games that contain content stronger than MA15+ are refused classification and cannot be sold or hired in Australia.

The Australian system is a Government-regulated scheme. It is a collaborative scheme between the Federal Government and the eight (8) State and Territory Governments of Australia. Classification decisions are made at the Federal level by the Classification Board and enforcement is carried out by the State and Territory Governments.

The Classification Board is an independent statutory authority that makes its decisions under the National Classification Scheme by applying the provisions of the Classification (Publications, Films and Computer Games) Act 1995, the Guidelines for the Classification of Film and Computer Games and the National Classification Code.

Applicants pay a fee to have the computer game classified and must provide comprehensive and detailed synopsis and description of game play. In effect this means that the Board members classifying the game must be able to work their way through the entire game content before they make their decision. If the game is likely to contain content that would be classified M or MA15+, that content must be either provided as a recording or demonstrated to the Classification Board by the applicant. Particulars of this content and the means by which access to it can be gained must be provided to the Board if a separate recording is not.

Broadly, classifications are made on the basis of applying an “impact test” (very mild impact through to strong impact) to a set of “classifiable elements” (themes, violence, sex, language, drug use, nudity) considered at each classification. The impact test means that not only the impact of the individual classifiable elements has to be considered, but the cumulative impact of the overall production as well.

The Classification Board can be as many as 20 people under the legislation, and they are recruited to be “broadly representative of the Australian community”. Members of the Board are kept up to date with community standards by various types of consumer research undertaken periodically by the Office of Film and Literature Classification (OFLC), which provides administrative and policy support to the Classification Board.

Most computer games would be classified by a number of Board members. A Board report is written that outlines the reasons for the decision and represents both the majority and minority decisions. The majority decision is the classification decision. The applicant is provided with a classification certificate. If they ask for the Board report, it is provided to them.

There is a mechanism whereby certain aggrieved parties, ministers or the applicant can apply for a merits review, for a fee, to the Classification Review Board, which is another independent statutory authority – a part time Board convened only for reviews. In these cases the CRB makes a fresh decision.


PALGN: How long before a title is released does it need to be submitted for classification?

OFLC: All titles need to be classified before they can be released or advertised. As there is a standard turnaround time of 20 working days for a classification to be made, this would mean the computer game should be submitted for classification at least 20 working days before the advertising campaign is to begin. If a shorter time period is required, a priority service payment can be paid and the turnaround can be achieved in 5 working days.




PALGN: Does the visual style of a game affect its rating? For example are more realistic games likely to receive higher ratings than cartoon titles with the same themes?

OFLC: If a game looks more realistic it is probably likely that the impact of its elements will be higher than if it looks like a straight cartoon, in much the same way as a live action film has more impact than an animated film. So in that respect the visual style may affect the classifiable elements. But visual style itself is not a classifiable element.


PALGN: Do you know of any members of the classification board play who video games as a hobby?

OFLC: Yes, some members do.


PALGN: The 2005 GamePlay Australia study commissioned by the IEAA found that “the average Australian computer or video game player is 24 years old”. Does the OFLC consider these kinds of statistics when making its decisions?

OFLC: The OFLC, Classification Board and Classification Review Board are aware of various studies that point to the average age of gamers. Again, classification decisions are made using the tools of the Classification (Publications, Films and Computer Games) Act 1995, the National Classification Code and the Guidelines for the Classification of Films and Computer Games. Though such findings fall outside the ambit of these tools, I believe they are accommodated in the mix as the Classification Board is recruited to be “broadly representative of the Australian community”.

In my opinion, the fact that Board members are recruited to “be broadly representative of the Australian community”, and the fact that the mechanisms by which classification decisions are made are clearly laid out in legal instruments contribute very strongly to the success of our system. The periodic consumer research the OFLC has undertaken to assess the level to which the Classification Board is in step with community standards supports this success as well. I also believe the Review mechanism of the scheme provide further checks and balances that ensure the decisions remain “broadly representative of the Australian community”.


PALGN: Marc Ecko’s Getting Up: Contents Under Pressure was recently refused classification because it promotes the crime of graffiti. Is there a reason why previous graffiti games (such as Jet Set Radio Future) haven’t been given the same treatment?

OFLC: This decision was made on Review.

The Classification Review Board is a separate review body. It needs to be understood that both boards are also completely independent from one another and it is possible for them to reach different decisions on the same content.

Previous graffiti games have not been reviewed by the Review Board. The Classification Review Board will release their reasons for decision about Getting Up: Contents under pressure in due course, and I am unable to comment on the decisions of the Review Board.




PALGN: One of the main thrusts for Marc Ecko’s Getting Up being declassified was that it promoted crime. Can the OFLC (or the OFLC Reviews Board) point to research that proves a connection between playing a video game and committing an associated crime? If not, why is such a reason allowed to review an initial classification?

OFLC: It is important to understand that the game was Refused Classification by the Classification Review Board. “Refused Classification” is a classification. (Declassification means revocation, which is a different power under the Classification Act.)

As mentioned, the legislative classification tools are used by the Board to make their decisions.

It is also important to understand that Classification decisions are not always unanimous and the majority decision becomes the decision. This is what makes the system fair – it accommodates various viewpoints.

In the case of this review, the Classification Review Board was constituted by four people and the Convenor exercised her casting vote because there was, until that point, an evenly split decision.

As the Review Board is an independent, I am unable to comment on their decision-making process. The Classification review Board will release its reasons for decision in due course.


PALGN: Is the recent banning of Marc Ecko’s Getting Up likely to set a precedent for future game classifications? Can we expect to see driving games banned because they promote reckless driving or first person shooters banned because they promote murder?

OFLC: All classification decisions are considered on a case by case basis, following the processes I have explained earlier. As all games and films are different, it would be pre-emptive to make a comment either way.


PALGN: If a game goes before the reviews board and is declassified, what recourse does the public have in requesting a review of the review?

OFLC: The only recourse is when there has been an error of law, in which case it becomes reviewable at the Federal Court under the Administrative Decisions (Judicial Review) Act 1977.


PALGN: The 2005 GamePlay Australia study found that “88% of Australians, regardless of whether they play or have a game device say Australia should have an R(18+) classification for computer and video games.” Why are games and movies rated in differently? In particular why is there no R18+ rating for video games?

OFLC: Because the National Classification Scheme is a cooperative arrangement between the Commonwealth and the States and Territories, major policy decisions like those concerning an R 18+ classification for computer games are made jointly by the Ministers with censorship responsibilities in these 9 jurisdictions.

At the time that Ministers decided to limit the classification of computer games to MA15+ in 1996, they were concerned that, because of their ‘interactive’ nature, games might have greater impact, and therefore greater potential for harm, on young minds than films.

The last time Ministers considered this issue was at their November 2002 meeting at which time, on balance, not all Ministers were satisfied children would not access games classified as suitable only for adults.




PALGN: The first point in the National Classification Code reads “adults should be able to read, hear and see what they want”. Surely the banning of Marc Ecko’s Getting Up negates this point entirely. How can the OFLC justify refusing to classify any material (be it movies or games) when this is the first point in the code?

OFLC: That is one of the principles in the Code. Among the others is the principle that “minors should be protected from material likely to harm or disturb them”. The Classification (Publication, Films and Computer Games) Act 1995 also provides that “the standards of morality, decency and propriety generally accepted by reasonable adults” must be taken into account when classifying films and computer games. As well, the Code provides that material that incites a crime can be classified RC.

Again, the process of majority decision and the fact that the Boards are recruited to be “broadly representative of the Australian community” ensures that these principles are abided by.


PALGN: If there were an R18+ classification for video games, do you expect that Marc Ecko’s Getting Up would have been given the rating?

OFLC: The Convenor of the Classification Review Board has said that the decision was made on the basis that the game contained “detailed instruction in matters of crime”. That is one of the guidelines for finding a film or game Refused Classification. She has also said that it was not made on the basis that it exceeded the MA 15+ classification.


PALGN: In response to the banning, Marc Ecko had this to say to the Sydney Morning Herald; "It mostly has to do with a generation of disconnect and a lack of understanding of the medium of video games. There's too many grey hairs blocking their eyes." What would you say you say to counter this statement?

OFLC: I would point out again that the members of the Classification Board and the Classification review Board are specifically recruited to be “broadly representative of the Australian Community”. Not all decisions are unanimous. It is the majority decision that is carried in any classification decision. I believe this illustrates that the system is fair.


PALGN: What would be required for an R18+ classification to be introduced for video games?

OFLC: Again, that is a matter for State, Territory and Commonwealth Ministers.


PALGN: One of the aspects of the banning of Marc Ecko’s Getting Up was the instructional aspect of the game, how does an in game instruction (for example press X or the directional pad) equate to a real world instruction?

OFLC: Refer to the Convenor of the Classification Board’s comments in the media release.


PALGN would like to thank Des Clark for taking the time to answer our questions.
73 Comments
5 years ago
Jim Dash wrote
And I just found this topic now? I missed the whole Jibbs war. Damn. I woulda been there for ya Jibby.
Haha, thanks man, nice to know someone's got my back, this forum is like Lord of the Flies at times icon_razz.gif
5 years ago
What needs to be in place is a fine system for retailers (although I imagine there probably already is) which is actually enforced, if you sell to a minor you should get slapped with a hefty fine (I'm thinking relative to the alcohol laws and the fines associated with it). Both the sellers and parents need to play a part in this, far too often I see store clerks just not caring and frankly that's not the attitude to have.
5 years ago
wobbler wrote
quote no one in particular but many posts in this thread "Parents should take resonsibility"

To everyone eles who has said similar, how exactly? I wont ask if you guys that have said the same thing are parents, but did you have parents when you were kids? would you have liked to wait for your parents to play through a game before you were allowed to? this is what the OFLC is for (there not perfect). Before sounding like an ACA reporter, please explain how parents should take resonsibility.

As for an R rating for games, Im all for it but without it being enforced with fines/penaltys etc I dont want to have my kids buying them. My 12 yr old son bought a M15+ gamethe other day "no questions" and Im not to worried with that but an R rated game........I do let my kids watch some R rated films but only after myself or wife has seen it.
no, i'm not a parent, and when i was still a minor, games hadn't really reached the scale of adult content, or popularity as they enjoy today, but my parents were around for movies, and like you said how you enforce your children's viewing, they let me watch certain films after they deemed them something they didn't mind me watching.

i'm not saying you must play through a game before you allow your child to play it, i'm just saying be aware of what they are playing. sure, some content you deem inappropriate might slip through, but by and large you'll know what they're playing.

btw: i'm not having a personal go at you or your habits, i'm just anwering the question as best i can. in fact, you seem to support my views on the matter, or at least, i support the way you moderate your child's gaming through responsible reviewing. i don't know if you took offence to anything i said, but it wasn't intended.

i guess my point is (if it hasn't been clear enough from the thousand or so other times i've mentioned it) is that retailers aren't ready for an R-Rating. Alcohol and Cigarettes are effectively R-Rated, and these are mostly enforced correctly. when Video and DVD retailers/renters can enforce the MA and R-ratings to the same degree as Alcohol and Tobacco sellers can (sure, there's a few dodgy retailers, and mistakes in the system, nothing's perfect) then i think we can start thinking about a proper R-Rating for games. (thanks Sin for planting the seeds for the analogy).

as it stands at the moment, you can be the most responsible parent in the world, but if a child wants to buy or rent and R-Rated film, there are plenty of places that won't bat an eyelid, effectively degrading the whole parental responsibilty.
5 years ago
^ all is cool and I wasn't offended as such by anyones comments but just annoyed when I read 4 or 5 times in the thread 'parents should take resonsibility' or along those lines, without any sort of explanation/suggestion of how. And in fact parents have taken resonsibility by lobbying for ratings that are set by the OFLC who do play through the games so parents dont have to.

A funny little story was when my wifes parents came to visit and I banned all of the kids from playing GTA SA for the week. My wife had a go at me because I wouldn't let one of the kids play the game (after asking in front of his grandparents) when I had let the others play it days earlier. My wifes jaw nearly hit the floor when I showed her some of the game play and the language used in the game later that night (and I got a very nice apology).

ratings are there for a reason but are nowhere near perfect ( infact I can be more shoked by the content in a disney movie than in a game like GTA). I think we all agree that R rated games would be acceptable if the distribution was enforced properly but as was pointed out by others, games get a pretty easy rating for their content compared to alot of movies so do we really need an R rating? And like I was saying in my last paragraph of my last post , where do we draw the line?
5 years ago
Are your kids 15 and over? Cuz if not you shouldn't be letting them play GTA: SA. It's rated MA15+ which means ONLY for 15 years and older, not with parental supervision.

Umm yes we "really do need an R rating". I wanna make the decision for myself. It's not easy for kids to go out and buy Porn so why videogames?
5 years ago
censorship is also a very subjective thing. you really only need to look a film ratings from 10-20 years ago compared to today to see this.

The Terminator came out as an R, The Goonies came out to a G rating.

watch them today and see how one is relatively tame, and the other is quite subversive, then try and imagine these films being released today and imagine what ratings they'd get these days.
5 years ago
^ Actually it's very easy to buy porn without ID. It's only hard to buy it (or even go into) adult shops like Club X or whatever. However comparing video games with porn isn't quite the same. Sex, nudity and what not are more acceptable these days. Just look at TV and the many many teenage (sometimes preteenage) girls and what they wear and listen to how they talk. (Though I have sometimes wondered if it just the girls around my area who are like this icon_lol.gif )

Video games are being used as scapegoat in most cases, I mean some suspected Canadian terrorist played Halo and that's being blamed for his terroristy ways. But the fact his new wife is a religious exteremist and the man was becoming more and more extremist due to her involvement in his life was completely glossed over.

Personally I think blaming video games is just a phase, like blaming comics, Rock and Roll and whatever was just a phase. Sooner or later the media will find something new to blame and we'll get an AO rating.
5 years ago
Sex/Nudity/Violence/Bad Languge it's all more acceptable these days!

Of course videogames are being used as a scapegoat as obs has already pointed out it's a fairly new medium that just needs a bit more understanding by the people who aren't directly involved with it aand I agree.

And I don't understand what you mean about girls dressing/talking and listening to...how that pertains to pornography?! Just because girls are wearing shorter skirts and talking about sex doesn't actually make it porn.
5 years ago
^ No, but Pornography is about image (and the affect of the imagery). So is the way in which girls dress these days, they do it because they are image conscious. Image is everything in today's world and the evidence is everywhere.
5 years ago
ugh the boot wrote
Are your kids 15 and over? Cuz if not you shouldn't be letting them play GTA: SA. It's rated MA15+ which means ONLY for 15 years and older, not with parental supervision.

Umm yes we "really do need an R rating". I wanna make the decision for myself. It's not easy for kids to go out and buy Porn so why videogames?
OK..... so now I am completely confused about what your argument is. The OFLC sucks and shouldn't try and tell us what we can or cant play but its alright for you to tell me I can't let my kids play MA15+ games?

If we "really do need an R rating" what exactly do you want to see in games that would require an R rating thats not already available?
5 years ago
^ I'm using your theory on the OFLC as the argument. If the OFLC are making such wise decisions why do you undermine what they rate the games? Why doesn't everyone just make their own call, like you're doing with you kids?!

I want the R18+ rating because I want torture, death, voilence, bad language, explicit sex....EVERYTHING!!!

NismoR34 wrote
^ No, but Pornography is about image (and the affect of the imagery). So is the way in which girls dress these days, they do it because they are image conscious. Image is everything in today's world and the evidence is everywhere.
They do it because they're porn stars or they wanna be like porn stars that's what you're saying! It's not because they wanna appear sexy or anything! I think you're confusing the 'sex' image with 'porn'. Porn is explicit! There are differences. I know a lot of girls who are obsessed with 'sex' and the image but absolutely hate porn.

A good example is I can look at pictures of scanitly clad girls/women at work but I can't look at porn.
5 years ago
^ the difference is, the OFLC laws are confined to the retail end of the consumer chain, all the classifications are bound with the clause of parental discretion. (except the X rating iirc, i think that's also illegal to be shown to a minor).

i'm not saying children aren't allowed to play them, i'm saying they shouldn't be allowed to BUY them, there's a difference, and the law recognises this, but doesn't enforce it. i don't care what happens once the game is home, but legally, it's supposed to be an adult (or a 15yo +) that does the actual purchasing.
5 years ago
ObsoletE wrote
^ the difference is, the OFLC laws are confined to the retail end of the consumer chain, all the classifications are bound with the clause of parental discretion. (except the X rating iirc, i think that's also illegal to be shown to a minor).

i'm not saying children aren't allowed to play them, i'm saying they shouldn't be allowed to BUY them, there's a difference, and the law recognises this, but doesn't enforce it. i don't care what happens once the game is home, but legally, it's supposed to be an adult (or a 15yo +) that does the actual purchasing.
yes, well said, ratings are there as a guide to what should be watched but a law as what can be purchaced, which as many of us know is not enforced. This is the main point stopping an R rating being excepted.

Quote Ugh wrote: "I want the R18+ rating because I want torture, death, voilence, bad language, explicit sex....EVERYTHING!!!"

well as for death,violence, bad language, we already have these in games. Torture is debatable which I dont really want to start a debate on but hey if we can have torture what about a pedifile game? As for explicite sex(nothing wrong with that) but all I have to say is what would your mates say if you needed to have sex via a video game icon_lol.gif and have you ever heard of that game "hide the sausage" its not on a console ( unless thats what turns you on) but maybe you should try it.

Edit: And I think I have said in each of my posts that the oflc is "not perfect". This is not a black and white argument (which makes it interesting) so I hope that I dont end up on your ban list or anything as we do argree on many things. icon_biggrin.gif
5 years ago
ugh the boot wrote
NismoR34 wrote
^ No, but Pornography is about image (and the affect of the imagery). So is the way in which girls dress these days, they do it because they are image conscious. Image is everything in today's world and the evidence is everywhere.
They do it because they're porn stars or they wanna be like porn stars that's what you're saying! It's not because they wanna appear sexy or anything! I think you're confusing the 'sex' image with 'porn'. Porn is explicit! There are differences. I know a lot of girls who are obsessed with 'sex' and the image but absolutely hate porn.

A good example is I can look at pictures of scanitly clad girls/women at work but I can't look at porn.
You misread my point, it seems.

First and foremost, pornography in all forms is subjective to the individual. What you may consider to be scantily clad women another may consider it to be soft porn (or perhaps even worse).

That obvious point out of the way, you asked about how the way the female gender pertains to pornography and I gave the answer. Pornography, scantily clad women in magazines or the clothing that celebrities wear - all of it is based on image and the way your typical female teenager dresses is because of the image they want to uphold. Be it because they are influenced by a certain person, because it makes them feel better or because they like to show off, all of it boils down to image and all my post was doing was explaining the connection.
5 years ago
ObsoletE wrote
..all the classifications are bound with the clause of parental discretion. (except the X rating iirc, i think that's also illegal to be shown to a minor).
That's a good point.

wobbler wrote
well as for death,violence, bad language, we already have these in games. Torture is debatable which I dont really want to start a debate on but hey if we can have torture what about a pedifile game? As for explicite sex(nothing wrong with that) but all I have to say is what would your mates say if you needed to have sex via a video game icon_lol.gif and have you ever heard of that game "hide the sausage" its not on a console ( unless thats what turns you on) but maybe you should try it.
It's not that I want explicit sex in a game for arousal, just maybe as a fun/funny distraction...i guess it would be more for the sake of being 'allowed' to have it that's all.....look at the hot coffee mod.....it was actually a crack up! Another thing I forgot to mention is 'mutilation', i'm sure that would have trouble getting through the oflc.

I just don't like being told what I can and can't watch/do because of it's 'supposed' effects.

Secondly....i really wouldn't care what anyone would think about my hobbies/urges etc. If sex in a game turned me on....well dems the breaks (luckily it doesn't). I'm sure there are some people out there that would love it.

And no way would I put you on my ban list dude, this is a good discussion, i'm not taking offence to anything.

pedifile = pedophile

NismoR34 wrote
That obvious point out of the way, you asked about how the way the female gender pertains to pornography and I gave the answer. Pornography, scantily clad women in magazines or the clothing that celebrities wear - all of it is based on image and the way your typical female teenager dresses is because of the image they want to uphold. Be it because they are influenced by a certain person, because it makes them feel better or because they like to show off, all of it boils down to image and all my post was doing was explaining the connection.
Pornography is to stimulate sexual arousal....it's not about an image. People don't make XXX tapes to look cool.

Female pornstars are basically considered 'sluts' and most of the chicks I know hate being called sluts. Infact most of the girls I know hate the porn industry in general. They're not looking to achieve that same image.

I understand the point and the connection you're trying to make but it's not the same thing.
5 years ago
ugh the boot wrote
pedifile = pedophile
Actually it's paedophile (Sorry).

ugh the boot wrote
Pornography is to stimulate sexual arousal....it's not about an image.
However, some of the stuff they does get worn would not look out of place in a porno flick.
ugh the boot wrote
People don't make XXX tapes to look cool.
Unless you're a guy, but that's a different story and doesn't apply to everyone.

Pretty much sex is glorified now, Paris Hilton, Big Brother Uncut etc. and this affects kids, hell two years ago I heard 10 and 11 year olds talking about turkey slaps and tea bagging. I've heard worse in the past two years too, but I'm trying to suppress most of it.

Gaming does have an affect on kids (especially the younger ones), hell I've been slightly affected by it (I'm a lot more paranoid than I used to be). So it all boils down to the issues Obs says, the ratings system need to be actually policed with fines for store owners and everything else.
5 years ago
^ You don't have to be sorry, i'm not wrong! Look up dictionary.com (you're not wrong either). Pedophile is the main entry whereas 'paedophile' is the variant. Not too sure that that means though.

And i'm over this whole porn/sex debate so....whatever. I've made my point, so have you and Nismo.
5 years ago
I see more vile attrocities in the broadcast news than in any game i have played.
Iraqis dismembered laid out in lines, depressing stories etc.
Is this why the simpsons is on at the same time as the news?

If violence etc is portrayed in a tongue in cheek fashion I have no problem in how 'obscene' it is.
Bring on Bad day in L.A!!
That's going to push the boundaries of the OFLC but it is so tongue in cheek it is comedy, but if scrutinised to the full extent is basically offending everyone.
5 years ago
ugh the boot wrote
I understand the point and the connection you're trying to make but it's not the same thing.
As I am sure you are well aware, I wasn't trying to stipulate that it was the same thing. Just like Pornography, there are multiple definitions of 'image' depending on the subject and/or the individual. I wasn't making the connection by general definition of the words, just pointing it out so that you could see the connection. We've all had our say though, so let's move back onto the main topic. icon_smile.gif
5 years ago
^ There is a vague connection but it still doesn't contribute in any way to the discussion that was being had, so I still don't see the point of raising such an issue.
5 years ago
fine, move away from Pornography then. what about films that have non-simulated sex in them, 9 songs, or Brown Bunny. both are R-rated, and both are freely available to minors in most retail stores.

i only noticed this as i saw a girl buying both last night at a JB Hifi store, she looked all of 12.

(yes, i'm making assumptions on her age, but she wasn't asked for ID, so if i was mistaken, surely the clerk should've been just as mistaken.)
5 years ago
9 Songs has a wicked soundtrack, but that's off topic.

I don't necessarily want an R rating on games in order to allow cruder material through, it's mianly to get people off the case of games which are currently released. If an R rating was in place then games like San Andreas, Reservoir Dogs, Kingpin, etc could get the higher rating and therefore give parents a greater understanding of just how far these titles may go. It's not for the sake of opening the floodgates to whatever people want to put into a videogame, I find it would extend the knowledge of what children should, and should not, be subjected to.
5 years ago
How the heck did I miss the revival of one of my favourite topics? I'm not in the office at the moment so can't answer everything as thoroughly as I would like, so:

lots of people wrote
lots of things said
Yes, I think I was one of those who said parents are the ones responsible and I still stand by that, although I would like to clarify and say that my stance is that "parents are the ultimate responsibility".

I think that our government, our game developers and publishers, our schools and our media all have a responsibility to aid, advise and support recommendations and guidelines to parents to help them in their decision about what is and what isn't appropriate for their child.

However, in the end, it is the parent that can best judge for their own individual child what is good/bad/appropriate/inappropriate for them. It is the parent who can best monitor the results of the child playing a particular video game and intervene if there are unwanted inappropriate outcomes, or encourage if the game appears to bolster favourable attitudes or learning experiences.

While your argument about waiting around for my parents to play the game first before letting me loose on it may sound onerous the way you phrased it, that doesn't lessen the fact that it still is the responsibility of the parent to vet any kind of media their child is consuming. If you as a mum or dad decide not to play a video game and base your decision on looks, magazine articles, OFLC rating, description on the back of the cover, word-of-mouth, that's fine as long as you understand that your child's reaction and positive or negative growth is still your responsibility - you just chose to make your decision on a different set of (still educated but not as personally direct) reasons.

I let my son play anything PG or less with nothing more than a cursory look at the back of the cover. M I review more closely, play the first level or two and then let him play while I am present. MA15+ is an automatic no (he's 9), but every now and then after I've played it for a while I make the decision that he is allowed to use it - either only while I'm playing with him, or on the very rare occasion, by himself.

So, yes, I have kids, and I try to follow a good model in monitoring video games for them.

This whole topic - the concept of parents not really understanding video games (well in the original definition of this thread it was more "adults" not understanding as opposed to "parents", but we've moved on from that a little) - is why I launched gameparents.com.

I respect the OFLC's decisions on how they rate the video games coming into Australia as an excellent guideline on how I can approach a particular video game. However, the lack of an R rating is, to me, taking it a step too far because it is no longer a guideline, it is a law that stops me making the decision for myself. I don't mind that MA15+ has a legal obligation on the retailer to refrain from selling to under 15's - because it makes it even more obvious that the decision lies in the hands of the parent.

Oh, to Sin... I, and probably others, did that same research back when it happened - it was for "promoting criminal activity" and it is clearly stated that it was the peripheral bits, not the actual gameplay that tipped it over the edge. To be accurate it WAS actually rated MA15+, then the reviews board reversed the decision with that hung jury, Maureen Shelley thing (sorry, that was in response to the "slated for MA15+" thing. icon_smile.gif )

Note that the OFLC has since then been dragged into be part of the Attorney-General's office (the A-G was the final straw that made the reviews board actually look at the game). It has been gutted of the majority of the personnel and filled with A-G people who are even less interested in the general public's opinion of an R rating (in case you didn't know there is just as strong a movement in the government backbench to actually get rid of MA15+ from video games), and that's why we're seeing even more games considered for an RC classification in recent months.

There's more, but I have to go back through 2 pages of posts. icon_smile.gif
5 years ago
ugh the boot wrote
^ There is a vague connection but it still doesn't contribute in any way to the discussion that was being had, so I still don't see the point of raising such an issue.
It was never meant to contribute to the actual discussion, it was just to point out the connection. vague or otherwise.
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