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28 Jan, 2009

Michael Atkinson explains his stance on a R rating for games

PALGN News | He hasn't changed his mind.
South Australia attorney general Michael Atkinson has elaborated on his stance against a R18+ rating for videogames, believing that such a rating would put 'children and vulnerable adults' at risk.

"I don’t support the introduction of an R18+ rating for electronic games, chiefly because it will greatly increase the risk of children and vulnerable adults being exposed to damaging images and messages," said Atkinson in an email statement sent to GameSpot.

"The interactive nature of electronic games means that they have a much greater influence than viewing a movie does. People are participating and 'acting-out' violence and criminal behaviour when they are playing a video game. They are essentially rehearsing harmful behaviour. Children and vulnerable adults (such as those with a mental illness) can be harmed by playing video games with violence, sex, and criminal activity."

Apparently, Atkinson has witnesses the adverse effects that games can have on minors first hand.

"I have three sons who regularly play computer games at home - the eldest is now 22," noted Atkinson. "I see my children become physically and emotionally obsessed with games, and it is difficult to drag them away from the gaming console. The repeated act of killing a computer-generated person or creature desensitises children to violence."

The attorney general also pointed that that, compared to the number of games classified, only a tiny number were actually refused classification.

"Critics sometimes claim that I am ruining the game-development industry. There are very few computer games that are refused classification each year. In 2007/8 just three computer games were refused classification (Soldier of Fortune: Payback, Dark Sector, and Shellshock 2: Blood Trails). This represents a very small proportion of the 961 decisions made last financial year. In fact, only 55 were classified at the top existing rating of MA15+.

"Last year the makers of Grand Theft Auto IV altered the game before submitting it for an MA15+ classification, and Silent Hill: Homecoming is under revision by its makers after being knocked back by the Classification Board. The lack of an R18+ classification is not preventing very many adult-themed video games reaching the shop shelves - but it is ensuring that scenes that don't comply with a MA15+ rating are removed.

Atkinson admits that his stance on a R18+ rating does compromise a person's liberty - but believes it's worth it.

"[Some] may believe that the present system restricts adult liberty. It certainly does restrict choice to a small degree, but that is the price of keeping this material from children and vulnerable adults. In my view, the small sacrifice is worth it. "

You can read the full statement here.

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92 Comments
1 year ago
It really irritates me when systems are structured in such a way that administrative officials such as Mr. Atkinson are able to impose their personal views on the rest of the nation.
While Attorney Generals are not directly elected, they are appointed by elected representatives and should be answerable to the public at large as such. Mr Atkinson is doing out country a disservice by refusing to listen to the voice of the people (not to mention the advice of his peers) and simply mandating that his opinion be law.
Not only this, but as many others have already pointed out, his arguments are fallacious.
A more restrictive rating system will prevent undesirable content getting into the hands of minors and other unfit individuals. A greater onus should be placed on stores to monitor the sale of such products to minors and legislation should be put in place to ensure that they are punished if they do so. Works for alcohol and cigarettes, no reason it can't work here as well.
1 year ago
Is it in WA Obs that MA18+ and R rated things are behind glass cabinets?

If he is so worried about it, lock the bastards up and you have to show id to buy/rent the games.

I don't think that 'mature adults' like us should have to suffer because a few parents don't pay attention to what they are buying for their kids. I figure if they HAVE to show id for a game, then i might make them think about buying them for their children.

I dunno, it always just seems to be a few irresponsible people that ruins it for the rest of us...
1 year ago
R rated books are off of general view, so books like American Psycho have to be requested, rather than walking up to a shelf and grabbing a copy, and apparently for games at least, they're also supposed to be behind glass, something i didn't know until recently when someone posted a link stating such, but personally i've never seen MA or R rated things behind the shelf (with the exception of books, as i said).

which while i believe it's a good thing games and DVDs aren't behind glass (it'd be f**king annoying), it also demonstrates the failure in policing retail laws.
1 year ago
It looks like I need to rip the attorny-general's arguements to pieces. To do this properly, I'm reading from the full article from GameSpot.

"I don't support the introduction of an R18+ rating for electronic games, chiefly because it will greatly increase the risk of children and vulnerable adults being exposed to damaging images and messages."
Let me explain why it won't greatly, which is the key word in this sentence, increase the risk of children being exporsed to damaging images and messages. Firstly, a retailer can not sell an R18+ game to a person under the age of 18 unless they make a fault in judgement as to their age, though it is likely that the person believes that the content is suitable and they will not be disturbed by it, and most of the time, the customer is right. However, this can be alleviated by requiring identification before sale.
The second level is at home. All video game consoles have parental controls. Failure to set these controls is the parent's fault if they have bought a game that would receive the R18+ rating. This is not the government's responsability. PC is the only exception, though after reading, it looks like there are still parental controls offered.
The third is that if a child has possesion of a game when the above has failed. Some will be put off by the R18+ label, as they know what this means. Some will not know how to access the contents. In the event that a child does access the contents, if they are at all disturbed, they will immediately isolate themselves from the content. A distrubed person is not a stupid person. I myself have been disturbed multiple times by the internet, and y'know what? I've done exactly as I've described, isolate myself from the content. I don't need to impose my internet security's parental controls to stop myself accessing the disturbing content because I'm not an idiot.
As for "vulnerable adults", can't they access the exact same themes in other mediums and the internet? It's likely that they will also isolate themselves from the content like a common person would if they find it disturbing.

"The South Australian government takes a strong position on protecting children (and the public) from criminal behaviour, sexual abuse, and drug use. My stance on R18+ classification is in line with the policies of the Rann Government [current South Australian government] to protect children."
Now I'm not from South Australia. I'm from Victoria (and have no grudge against South Australians. Just sayin', 'cause I've heard there is some kind of rivalry between our states... or something). But I believe that all of the mentioned themes, criminal behaviour, sexual abuse, and drug use, can be found in media in South Australia. Video games are no different. Yes, there is the interactivity level, but really, does that matter? You can do all these in real life, and have been taught morals about them. Just because you can do them in a video game and get away with it doesn't mean you'll do them in real life. Only a stupid person will think along the following mentality: "I can get away with it here, so that means I can get away with it anywhere,".

"Retaining the present classification scheme for electronic games is necessary because: it keeps the most extreme material off the shelves; it prevents children and vulnerable adults from being exposed to sexual abuse, criminal activity, and extreme violence in video games; it prevents children and vulnerable adults from virtual participation in sex, criminal activity, and extreme violence; and it results in game developers modifying their product for Australian and sometimes international audiences."
Again, this same content is available in other media, so you're discriminating video gamers and video games from other media. I've explained about the preventions in response to the first quote. Again, so what if they're exposed to virtual participation in these themes? There has been no conclusive evidence that video games change the nature of a video gamer from non-violent to violent or a civilian into a law breaker. All other research has been biased or inaccurate. And, again, only an idiot would believe they could get away with these in real life. The last point is not necessary if an R18+ rating is introduced. Please, can anyone name a game where the Australian censored version has become the worldwide version? And how did Mr. Atkinson discover these changes?

"I see my children become physically and emotionally obsessed with games, and it is difficult to drag them away from the gaming console."
The same goes to other media. It's hard to drag someone who is passionate in watching a television program, reading a book, surfing the internet and the like, away from their appropriate media. Video games are no different.

"The repeated act of killing a computer-generated person or creature desensitises children to violence."
Does this matter? Because they're being desensitised by it in video games does not mean they would act differently in real life. Video games rarely depict real world situations. No, no, Grand Theft Auto does not, as it depicts the criminal world. That is not the real world in which the gamers lives. Besides, normal media also does this. Video games are no different. A gamer only wants to execute the actions given them in a game because doing such a thing provides some kind of positive consequence in the game and minimal negative consequence. The common gamer would not do the same in the real world. The ones that would are the ones that would do the same if exposed to the equivelent media, which is legally and can be freely accessed.

"It makes violence part of their everyday lives and what is especially concerning is that it is their re-creation."
Again, this doesn't matter. The video game world is not the real world, and all gamers know this. They will not do this in the real world. And violence can become an everyday part of your life with the equivelant media.

"A child being able to watch sex and violence in a movie is damaging to the child, but the child participating in sex and violence in a computer game is worse."
A child won't be participating in sex and violence because they will be disturbed by it and isolate themsevles from it. And if they're not, it's up to the parents do some censorship of their own, or put the contents into context. Really, parents aren't powerless. Parents can be careless, but are more often cautious than careless.
I played Doom (the PS1 version) when I was eight (or somewhere abouts), and even though I was scared by it, I wasn't negatively affected by it. Violence is certainly not my first answer to my problems. I handle guns as well, perfectly legally too. I have my licences, know the saftey precautions, and handle them with a lot of care. I have no intentions to use them unlawfully.

"Extreme violence, perverted sex, and criminal activity are not essential for adults to enjoy playing electronic games. There are plenty of sophisticated games that are of interest to adults."
This is true. And such extreme themes would still be Refused Classification. Honestly, what game that would be submitted to the Classification Board that contains the aforementioned themes, especially perverted sex, would pass with the R18+ rating? I haven't seen a game so extreme that it would pass the R18+ rating, and if it did, it'd be banned. The R18+ rating give game developers more room to move, but doesn't let them do anything they please.

"A game is not necessarily more interesting to an adult simply because it contains extreme violence, explicit sexual material, criminal activity, or offensive language."
Mostly no, however, according to a recent study, around 5% of gamers prefer the violence.

"Some of the most popular and highly recommended games for adults would not be R18+ rated."
This is true, but in the same breath, some would.

"Critics sometimes claim that I am ruining the game-development industry."
I believe this is a mis-interpretation. Atknison is making it harder than necessary for the video game industry, not ruining it.

"There are very few computer games that are refused classification each year. In 2007/8 just three computer games were refused classification (Soldier of Fortune: Payback, Dark Sector, and Shellshock 2: Blood Trails). This represents a very small proportion of the 961 decisions made last financial year. In fact, only 55 were classified at the top existing rating of MA15+."
That doesn't mean that that you shouldn't introduce the rating because it affects such a little amount of games. It's like saying that we shouldn't have accessability ramps because there's such a little amount of people who can't climb stairs.

"Last year the makers of Grand Theft Auto IV altered the game before submitting it for an MA15+ classification, and Silent Hill: Homecoming is under revision by its makers after being knocked back by the Classification Board. The lack of an R18+ classification is not preventing very many adult-themed video games reaching the shop shelves--but it is ensuring that scenes that don't comply with a MA15+ rating are removed."
This is a nice way of saying "Our laws are responsible for developers censoring themselves before we do,". Once you start censoring content when there are equivelants to the censored content, the line between what should be censored and what shouldn't be starts to fade. Since video games are the new media and are the only media being censored this way, preventing the introduction of the R18+ rating is discriminating video games.

"I think that's a great result for consumers and has little impact on the profitability of game developers."
Consumers don't want censorship. Remember Underbelly? Remember how it got censored for Victoria? Well, let me tell you a story about that. Victorians didn't like the fact that they couldn't get the uncensored version of Underbelly. So you know what they did? They got mates in South Australia and New South Wales to send them over copies of the uncensored version, complete with the sticker saying "Not for sale or distribution in Victoria.", thus proving the censorship failed. If someone sees a rule that they think is unnecessary, they will break it. Plenty of people take photos of signs saying "No cameras or camera phones," just because it's funny that they broke such a needless rule.
And it affects game developers when their game is Refused Classification and they have to move the release date back so they can change it. People sometimes lose interest during this time. Although Rock Band has nothing to do with the classification arguement, it does have everything to do with the released date arguement. Guitar Hero: World Tour was released worldwide and at the same time Rock Band finally arrived in Australia. Rock Band was pummelled in sales. Making developers release games later hurts them.

"Some games, such as Grand Theft Auto IV, have been modified to meet Australian standards. The present system encourages game developers to consider what is appropriate for an MA15+ rating and adjust their product accordingly. Sometimes this modified version has become the internationally distributed version."
This is a nice way of saying "Because we're censoring games to a level that exceeds the level the rest of the world are, the game developers are complying to our laws now instead of having their time wasted and complying later,". And, can anyone tell me which game that was modified only for Australia before its worldwide release where the modified version was released worldwide?

"Some of your readers may believe that the present system restricts adult liberty. It certainly does restrict choice to a small degree, but that is the price of keeping this material from children and vulnerable adults. In my view, the small sacrifice is worth it."
Yeah, material that they can be exposed to in another form that's not had this censorship imposed on it. I've already explained why it's not worth it.

"Classification exists for advertising, films, and books for the same reason--to protect children and vulnerable people."
Yet this "protection" has been taken one step futher with video games than any other media.

"In cinemas, the age of moviegoers can be regulated, and at the video store people must provide ID to hire R18+ videos. Once electronic games are in the home, access to them cannot be policed and the games are easily accessible to children."
Once films are in the home, access to them cannot be policed and the films are easily accessable to children. Oops! Did we forget that? Why is it any different with video games? And access to all media can be policed, by the parents. Oops, we must've forgot about them too. I swear, I reckon parents wouldn't like anyone who's saying that they can't do their job properly and doing their job for them, which, effectively, is what Mr. Atkinson is doing.

"These days, older children (18-30) are often living in the family home with younger children (under 18). This means games belonging to older children or parents can easily make their way into the hands of those under 18."
These days, older children (18-30) are often living in the family home with younger children (under 18). This means films belonging to older children or parents can easily make their way into the hands of those under 18. Oops! Did we forget about other media again? Oh dear. We aren't going too well today. Video games are not different to other media. You would hide a video game like you would hide the equivelent media.

"I'm concerned about the level of violence in society and the widespread acceptance of simulated violence as a form of entertainment. No doubt a legal restraint on the type of material available to the public in game form is only a small part of the answer, but I am loath to give it up."
This is an attempt to pretend that Mr. Atkinson is not discriminating video games. I've already proved that he is indeed discriminating video games, so this can almost be called invalid. We don't share your concerns about the level of violence in society. We must remember that human beings are inherently violent. And just because we're exposed to violent media doesn't mean we're influenced to mirror it.

"I am not alone in my view. Groups such as Young Media Australia oppose the introduction of an R18+ classification, saying that interactive violence can desensitise people to violence. Although I receive letters from the public opposing my stance on R18+ games, I also get letters of support."
We don't care if there's more than one person sharing this view. The desensitivity is not to violence itself, but to violence in video games, which is not an issue as it is yet to be proven that video games incite someone to be violent. The fact is that those people only agree with this view is because they haven't been educated on the subject enough, and could have also been misled.

"Some other classification ministers are also opposed to an R18+ classification but have not spoken about it publicly. I'm confident the proposal would be blocked by other classification ministers if I weren't using my veto power."
Until this has been proven, we don't care.

"The framework for our classification system is established in Commonwealth legislation. The process of classifying a work is done by the [Classification Board, an independent body]. Films and games are classified according to the same guidelines and using the same categories and symbols under the classification codes. Games that are entertaining and challenging to adults may be found in any classification category. The classification goes simply to the strength or impact of the content. In classifying a game, only the classifiable elements are considered: violence, sex, nudity, drug use, coarse language, and (controversial) themes."
If the games are being rated equally, they should also receive equal ratings. This means that to be truely equal, we need to have the R18+ rating for video games.

"In Australia there is merit in a national classification scheme. With state and territory borders being artificial for these purposes, once games classified R18+ are available in one state they will be readily available in others. It is important not to confuse the classification rating of a game with the game's sophistication, or the challenge or interest to the player. Depending on tastes and interests, adult gamers will find much to enjoy in all of the categories of games now available."
There's support for R18+ games, which means that adult gamers will be able to find and enjoy R18+ games now as well as all the other catigories. Don't think that just because there's an R18+ rating that someone who buys one game from it will never buy another game of any other rating.

"Classifications are overseen by the Standing Committee of Attorneys-General. SCAG includes attorneys general from all states, territories, and the Commonwealth. Most members are also the relevant minister for classifications in their jurisdiction. Under the Federal legislation, one minister can veto changes to our classification system in Australia. Hitherto, attorneys general have not agreed to create an R18+ category for computer games."
Translation: "All attorneys-general must agree before an R18+ catigory is introduced for video games. So far, I am the only attorney-general who is openly blocking the introduction,". And we already know this.

"A discussion paper will be released to the public shortly on the proposal for an R18+ classification for video games. I support the issuing of a public discussion paper that adequately represents both sides of the argument."
I thought this paper wasn't going to be released, but I'm glad it is. We're glad that the paper will be listing all the points for and against the issue.

As a final note, I'd like to point out a country that embraces video games more than anyone else, Japan. Gaming is embraced over there and there is minimal problems. As far as I know, no one there seems worried about video gamers and their actions, so why should it be different here? Japan seems to have been educated about video gaming, yet, at large, we have not. Japan has ratings that allow even perverted games to be released, and, of course, those games have their own classification and their own set of rules. I'm not saying that we should copy Japan exactly. What I'm saying is that we can learn from them. We can learn to embrace video games, become educated about them and, once we've done that, there will be a lot less stigma toward introducing an R18+ rating. Really, there isn't any need to prevent the introduction of an R18+ catigory.
1 year ago
EDIT: Disclaimer, this is not renegadesx the gamer speaking this is renegadesx the civil libertarian activist. Same attitude from the net censorship, alcapop tax and other issues

Quote
In my view, the small sacrifice is worth it
Head exploding rant in 3... 2... 1....

WHO THE F**K DOES THIS GUY THINK HE IS!!!!!!!

Speaking as a civil libertarian this guy needs to wake up to himself... he has absolutly no right to make a call of what freedoms are worth sacrificing! Who does he think he is? George Bush?

Individual freedom is the most important western value there is and western democracies are supposed to be there to protect it not take it away! Then again Atkinson has never been interested in what the people think!

News flash Atkinson, in democracy society deems what is acceptable and what is not and last time I saw the surveys your views are not consistent with society!

What an evil, draconian, fascist, freedom hating...... *head explodes*

In all seriousness, social conservatives like this guy really make my blood boil, there is no class of people more evil than them in the western world and I really mean that!
1 year ago
plused mushman for effort but.. uh man I'm not reading that.

Also, kinda preaching to the converted here.
1 year ago
The nonsensical ramblings of a man too wrapped up in his own point to see how warped he has become.

Trading away freedom and liberty due to some strange terror that children and the mentally ill are salivating in the wings just waiting to get their hands on Silent Hill : Homecoming or Soldier of Fortune.

You're using some alarmist terms in your statement and along side all that all you seem to be able to show as evidence is your 22 year old son and your views.

Trotting out your parental issues from home as a bizarre "fact" to re-enforce your point is petty, how about using some actual scientific studies from reputable sources?

Quote
Human beings will generally exercise power when they can get it; and they will exercise it most undoubtedly, in popular governments, under pretense of public safety.
Daniel Webster
1 year ago
"'In game violence numbs people to real life violence'?! That's crap! I want him to die!"


Seriously, I think the irony is giving me cancer.
1 year ago
I wonder if he's seen Hostel or Saw?
1 year ago
I wonder if he even owns a TV, afterall he seems to be mentally set in the 40's.
1 year ago
His kids had choose your own adventure "PONG! tm " edition. If you choose to go right turn to page 8. If you choose left go to page 24.
You go right and the pong ball just scrapes past the edge of your PONG! tm bat and goes into the void.

"Noooooo i actually meant to say left, my finger was still on the page!"

"Now now children you don't want me to ban children's books for teaching you that you are morons, you little scamps"

sorry no idea what any of that means
1 year ago
pong should be rated r.
i mean, no one considers what that block in the middle goes through, being beaten back and forth by those large planks.
1 year ago
Quote
pong should be rated r.
'Yeah baby, paddle that ball'

People are overreacting pretty bad over this. This guy isn't warped, twisted or insane, he's just your garden variety ill informed, biased, luddite old man.
1 year ago
Nietzsche wrote
I agree that it desensitises the act of killing a computer-generated person however in no way does it desensitise real violence. If I see an act of violence it still impacts the same way even if I never played video games
An excellent point.Now I can handle extreme acts of violence in games yet I don't even like to see people have a punch up in real life.

I have two cousins under the age of 14 who play very violent games and they haven't turn into sadistic people.
1 year ago
Sinthesys wrote
Quote
pong should be rated r.
'Yeah baby, paddle that ball'

People are overreacting pretty bad over this. This guy isn't warped, twisted or insane, he's just your garden variety ill informed, biased, luddite old man.
The problem is he is informed. He's read all the studies and ****.
1 year ago
He may be informed, but he still hasn't been properly educated about games. Also, he's one of those people who won't exactly back down from their ego (Jack Thomson anyone? (He's now barred from the courts after harrassing the judges. Yay!)). The only way to beat him is to get him in a live interview, ask him some very hard questions that break his arguement, like GameSpot tried to do, and whenever he tries to handball his way around any question, throw the question back on him and force him to answer it. Constantly ripping apart his arguements with more questions will ruin his rationale, and then you can prove his views as biased and invalid. As far as I know, polititians can't get away with believing in something and not having justified reasoning behind it. Prove his reasoning invalid and it's instant win.
1 year ago
That's the difference between having principles and just being a dick. Sticking to your stated opinion, no matter how ignorant it is, is somewhat noble. Holding back the process of discussion and public consultation like this is just being a dick.
1 year ago
Not surprised, if Jack Thompson had that kind of power would you see him doing anything different?

Yeah I went there!
1 year ago
Spanca wrote
South Australia: what the ****? Why do you guys keep voting for this idiot?
I didn't even know that you could vote for him. I was under the impression that we didn't have a choice and that he has been appointed by a bunch of conservative politicians that are in the majority.

I hear this guy on the radio every couple of days, and trust me when i say that this is not even on the top 10 list of his worst ideas. He wants to give police the ability to search people in the streets with no good reason.
1 year ago
SoxyRob wrote
Spanca wrote
South Australia: what the ****? Why do you guys keep voting for this idiot?
I didn't even know that you could vote for him. I was under the impression that we didn't have a choice and that he has been appointed by a bunch of conservative politicians that are in the majority.

I hear this guy on the radio every couple of days, and trust me when i say that this is not even on the top 10 list of his worst ideas. He wants to give police the ability to search people in the streets with no good reason.
I moved to Queensland from South Australia a few years ago and let me tell you, the place is renowned for being a police state. Rann & Atkinson are absolutely obsessed with over-regulation. Just a few weeks ago they banned a certain type of curtain cords because one toddler accidentally hung himself. Yeah one incident and poof, banned. It's not uncommon in SA. The art house flick 9Songs was banned in South Australia just a few years ago because it contains actual sex scenes, yet it remains R18+ in all other states/territories. One complaint and the local classification council reviewed it and said NO! BANNED! Yet they have no issue with underground horror flicks such as Cannibal Holocaust were by various animals were killed on screen just for the sake of entertainment.

Real sex = banned, real violence = OK
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078935/)

As you can see, the governments contradictions and hypocrisy aren't limited to video games. South Australia is a VERY conservative place, it's what Queensland was in the 70s & 80s and has a long way to go before it catches up to the rest of the nation. The old religiously motivated 'violence is fine but sex is evil' mentality is very much seeded in SA culture. It's such a shame that one state can hold back the entire country, though. I'm very glad I got out of the place, Queensland is so much different to SA nowadays. Brisbane is a bustling metropolis while Adelaide remains a dried up backwater run by completely incompetent morons.

The worst part is that South Australians keep voting for the local Labor party and thus keeping Atkinson in power, yet all people do in SA is bitch and whine about how much the government sucks. It really makes you think that Atkinson really is representing his state appropriately because the people are arguably as ignorant and out of touch as he is.
1 year ago
Real sex on screen has only just recently changed in Australia.
1 year ago
cannibal holocaust was banned in the entire country for 21 years though, not as good as cannibal the musical however.
1 year ago
ah, Cannibal the Musical...
such a spedoinkle film.
1 year ago
Fetidchimp wrote
cannibal holocaust was banned in the entire country for 21 years though, not as good as cannibal the musical however.
So? It's R18+ everywhere now except in SA.
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